At least 84 killed in terrorist attack in Nice, France

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

No, obviously not. I'm just saying that even if those types of beliefs were held by sub-Saharan Africans and South Americans, they lack the financial resources to pull off what Islamic extremists pull off.

Obviously there is a motivating factor beyond wealth. Obviously.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by SebC

I find this argument silly. Western democracies bombed Germany and Japan too and those places turned out alright.

You're not seriously comparing theatre warfare to colonialist aggression are you?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

Obviously there is a motivating factor beyond wealth. Obviously.

There are so many different variables when comparing U.S. involvement in Central and South America vs. U.S. involvement in the Middle East that trying to compare the two comes is fairly futile.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

There are so many different variables when comparing U.S. involvement in Central and South America vs. U.S. involvement in the Middle East that trying to compare the two comes across as futile.

That is pretty much what you are trying to do.

[Flash Walken]

This constant speaking around the issue is nauseating you guys.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

This constant speaking around the issue is nauseating you guys.

don't tell me how to live my life!!

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

That is pretty much what you are trying to do.

How so? I wasn't the person who brought South America into the discussion.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

What about violent Islamic radicalism outside the Middle East in Mali, Indonesia, and the Philippines?

I don't deny that there are issues outside of the Middle East as well.

But it does come from somewhere.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

We should do a scalp bounty on them. I mean going over there to fight a war against these scum is going to cost millions. Instead put a 15 million dollar bounty per senior leader 10 million for every minor leader and let their own peoples greed stab them in the back.

Add a 5 million dollar bonus to each if you get them alive so we can hang them, or put them in a cage and light them on fire. Or stuff grenades in their body holes and pull the pin.

Maybe we have to be less civilized in the treatment of their leaders. I mean they're driven by power, greed and money so they're not redeemable. Unlike some poor uneducated schmuck who thinks its a great adventure and they're doing gods work.

I don't think we are putting massive boots on the ground anytime soon. I think Obama will continue doing what he has been doing for years with JSOC and the intelligence community. More countries will probably give the US more insight and control over their own operations as well.

The US is a very effective killing machine per say. Change the rules of engagement and they will be utterly ruthless.

Question is if whether or not that will help us 1, 5, 10 years from now.

I don't think it is a very viable long term solution.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

We've lied to them, partitioned their countries, stole their resources or land, backed despots, overthrew their governments, bombed their civilians accidentally or otherwise, starved them out via sanctions. I find it ridiculous to distill it down to their religion, when it simply tells them to fight oppression. This has always been about politics, and religion provides an excellent recruitment tool.

Oh please.

We did the same crap to the Native Americans and I don't see them turning into suicide bombers to get back.

Countries have been screwed over for years by the superpowers of the world.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't deny that there are issues outside of the Middle East as well.

But it does come from somewhere.

I think there are some questions to ask when you break it down by region, too. From what I understand, the extremist sects in those countries have perpetrated their violent acts on their own soil and against their own citizens. Obviously this is unacceptable but it doesn't seem as though there's as much of an appetite from Muslims in those countries to attack the West, and I'm betting a lot of that has to do with the fact that there isn't really any recent history of Western involvement in those areas.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Southeast Asia, sub-Saharan Africa, and Latina American also suffered under decades of colonialism, foreign meddling, and civil wars. Look at Vietnam. Oppressed first by France, then by the U.S., then by China. Between Vietname, Cambodia, and Laos, 1.5 million people were killed and many more horrifically injured in proxy wars. Why aren't Vietnamese terrorists going on shooting sprees in American malls and blowing up Cafes in Paris? Why aren't all the people screwed over puppet regimes in Latin America calling for a cleansing war of extermination against the Gringo? Why aren't alienated immigrants from Jamaica cutting off heads in London?

Vietnam is a rather remarkable story. One of the great comeback stories of our lifetime.

They have deepened ties with the US, even calling them a 'friend', which is completely insane considering 50 years the US completely $#@! on their country.

So the Middle East has zero excuse.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Dan02

Well maybe it has something to do with thats the one place in the world we routinely drop bombs on in the name of terrorism.

It's quite the chicken and egg scenario, we drop bombs on them because "terrorism", anger provokes further extremism which we use to justify dropping more bombs. and round we go.

If you're the average civilian in the middle east walking along a street when all of a sudden the house beside you blows up because there's a Isis target in there, would it feel all that different from terrorism to your family?

IMO these relentless drone strikes and bombing campaigns are not helping the way you think they would.

Obviously not and they have made things worse. But the US fought proxy wars all over the world the last 50-75 years, and nowadays they have great relationships with many of those countries.

Our biggest failure was in supporting Saudi Arabia beyond buying their oil. They drove the rise of fundamental Islam and we helped them.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by rubecube

You're not seriously comparing theatre warfare to colonialist aggression are you?

You're not seriously calling ISIS victims of colonialism, are you?

[nik-]

Dude, they said Sykes Picot in one of their videos, colonialism must be the cause for this.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by SebC

You're not seriously calling ISIS victims of colonialism, are you?

I'd call them byproducts. Victims is a bit of a stretch. I'm not trying to say that their religion isn't a huge element, but it's silly to isolate the religious aspect away from the colonial aspect if we're trying to provide context. You could, however, make the argument that we can't really fix the colonial aspect at this point so it makes more sense to focus on the religious aspect, but I think refusing to acknowledge the role that the past has had on the present is self-serving.

[CaptainCrunch]

The whole ISIS thing has very little to do with anger over colonialism and a lot to do with a wacko fundementalist bat #### crazy interpretation of the Koran.

They lose any justification since they are going to war against other Muslims and religions, oh and raping young girls.

They don't want revenge, they want the return of god to earth.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The whole ISIS thing has very little to do with anger over colonialism and a lot to do with a wacko fundementalist bat #### crazy interpretation of the Koran.

They lose any justification since they are going to war against other Muslims and religions, oh and raping young girls.

They don't want revenge, they want the return of god to earth.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that terrorist attacks are a revenge for colonialism, at least I wasn't. It's more that colonialism and Western involvement in the middle east basically dumped a gallon of lighter fluid on the whole tire fire.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I don't think anyone is suggesting that terrorist attacks are a revenge for colonialism, at least I wasn't. It's more that colonialism and Western involvement in the middle east basically dumped a gallon of lighter fluid on the whole tire fire.

This has basically developed in the last 40 years, that's a pretty long time after colonialism for that lighter fluid to ignite.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by nik-

This has basically developed in the last 40 years, that's a pretty long time after colonialism for that lighter fluid to ignite.

Okay but Western involvement didn't end with colonialism.