Calgarypuck Prospect Ranking 2016 - Round 3

[Reggie Dunlop]

Ranking Jon Gillies so high is wishful thinking.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Jesus...

All Gillies has done since being drafted is win games and put up really good numbers. He's been on pretty much a steady upward trajectory, which is rare for a goalie as their performance can often go up and down. He did some of his best work in severe pain on a wonky hip. Just imagine what he can do now that it's been corrected.

Yeah, he missed a year due to surgery. I think we're all a little concerned about how he'll do after that, so it's fair play to mention it. What doesn't make sense is how people lump Gillies in with all the other goalies we've had in our system over the years: Krahn, Irving, McElhinney, etc. Now people want to lump him in with guys like McDonald, Schneider, Parsons etc. Sorry, but he's proved more than any of those guys mentioned and he deserves recognition as a legitimate top prospect.

If people want to argue that they think Kylington, Hickey, Andersson, Mangiapane...whoever...will end up being better, that's fine...just do that. Don't talk like Gillies is a bust. Not only is it premature, it's ignoring a lot of data that says just about anything other than a goalie who is going to bust.

Besides, doesn't anyone think the Flames are overdue to have a drafted goalie finally work out?

[flame^thrower]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Jesus...

All Gillies has done since being drafted is win games and put up really good numbers. He's been on pretty much a steady upward trajectory, which is rare for a goalie as their performance can often go up and down. He did some of his best work in severe pain on a wonky hip. Just imagine what he can do now that it's been corrected.

Yeah, he missed a year due to surgery. I think we're all a little concerned about how he'll do after that, so it's fair play to mention it. What doesn't make sense is how people lump Gillies in with all the other goalies we've had in our system over the years: Krahn, Irving, McElhinney, etc. Now people want to lump him in with guys like McDonald, Schneider, Parsons etc. Sorry, but he's proved more than any of those guys mentioned and he deserves recognition as a legitimate top prospect.

If people want to argue that they think Kylington, Hickey, Andersson, Mangiapane...whoever...will end up being better, that's fine...just do that. Don't talk like Gillies is a bust. Not only is it premature, it's ignoring a lot of data that says just about anything other than a goalie who is going to bust.

Besides, doesn't anyone think the Flames are overdue to have a drafted goalie finally work out?

Agreed. It's annoying how many sets of panties get tied in knots around here sometimes. If we aren't allowed to have an opinion then why have a poll?

Jon Gillies was a top ranked goalie prospect for a reason, and I feel he still is a top prospect. I do think that our prospect pool is looking really nice these days and if he is indeed 5th to 10th then that means our other prospects are obviously doing well. Definitely not a bad thing.

Edit: Unless of course, he is ranked low due to bust ... not a good thing.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Jesus...

All Gillies has done since being drafted is win games and put up really good numbers. He's been on pretty much a steady upward trajectory, which is rare for a goalie as their performance can often go up and down. He did some of his best work in severe pain on a wonky hip. Just imagine what he can do now that it's been corrected.

Yeah, he missed a year due to surgery. I think we're all a little concerned about how he'll do after that, so it's fair play to mention it. What doesn't make sense is how people lump Gillies in with all the other goalies we've had in our system over the years: Krahn, Irving, McElhinney, etc. Now people want to lump him in with guys like McDonald, Schneider, Parsons etc. Sorry, but he's proved more than any of those guys mentioned and he deserves recognition as a legitimate top prospect.

If people want to argue that they think Kylington, Hickey, Andersson, Mangiapane...whoever...will end up being better, that's fine...just do that. Don't talk like Gillies is a bust. Not only is it premature, it's ignoring a lot of data that says just about anything other than a goalie who is going to bust.

Besides, doesn't anyone think the Flames are overdue to have a drafted goalie finally work out?

He may very well go on to a storied NHL career, but he's got to firstly establish a track record as a pro. And that remains to be seen.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

He may very well go on to a storied NHL career, but he's got to firstly establish a track record as a pro. And that remains to be seen.

No oooooooooooooo sh*t.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am having a tough time figuring out how high to rank Gillies. He is right around here for me for sure, and I do think he is going to make a fine goaltender - a backup at least, and beyond that the sky is still the limit for him.

I just really like Kylington here. You can't teach offence. I think Kylington might be a better skater than Brodie is right now (and I realize what that statement means, as I think Brodie is one of the best skaters in the NHL). I really do see top-pairing potential in Kylington. I like him a lot more than Andersson, and a bit more than Hickey (who, I would say, is the most Giordano-like prospect in the system as a guy who excels at practically everything).

Gillies will win this one, but for me it is Kylington, and then I would be stuck between Gillies and Hickey for #4. Looks like I will be voting Hickey next.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I just really like Kylington here. You can't teach offence. I think Kylington might be a better skater than Brodie is right now (and I realize what that statement means, as I think Brodie is one of the best skaters in the NHL). I really do see top-pairing potential in Kylington. I like him a lot more than Andersson, and a bit more than Hickey (who, I would say, is the most Giordano-like prospect in the system as a guy who excels at practically everything).

Gillies will win this one, but for me it is Kylington, and then I would be stuck between Gillies and Hickey for #4. Looks like I will be voting Hickey next.

Yes, another believer!

He really is shaping up to be a star defenseman with his commitment to being coached and working on his defensive game. His attitude really does seem to be something quite misinterpreted by teams which slid him down majorly.

Can't wait to see if he makes the jump this season.

My prediction: The Flames play Wideman rather than letting a young guy take his spot in order to have him gain points and become an asset at the deadline.

Throughout the season Kylington forces his way into a bottom pairing/7th guy role while working on his defensive game at the NHL level in limited capacity. Then at the deadline Wideman is moved and Kylington takes a top four role on the team and never looks back.

[Mass_nerder]

I've always thought Hickey was a great pick, and although he had a down season offensively, I think he's our best defensive prospect.
I was especially impressed at the development camp scrimmage.

[bigrangy]

Kylington > Everyone else

I had Shink first before but I've since reconsidered. Kylington will be more impactful but it will be a little while.

Tkachuk after those two, then Andersson for me. Too much talent to ignore, even if he is full of doughnuts.

Gillies would be at 4 if I knew his hips were ok.

Hoping for some pleasant surprises from Janko and Poirier this year. Hopefully they make it this year and don't need to be included in next year's ranking.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

I've always thought Hickey was a great pick, and although he had a down season offensively, I think he's our best defensive prospect.
I was especially impressed at the development camp scrimmage.

Not that I dislike Hickey and he may end up the best of all our prospective defencemen. He has the size, speed and smarts to do it but I wasn't impressed when I saw him in his college and World Junior Championship games. To me he wasn't playing with confidence, so he drops a little for me behind Andersson and Kylington.

[TheScorpion]

Kylington next. He's something else with his skates, and his puckhandling is also fantastic. He and Hickey are close, but Killer definitely has the edge.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

He may very well go on to a storied NHL career, but he's got to firstly establish a track record as a pro. And that remains to be seen.

You know you just described every prospect in the world pretty much right?

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Jesus...

All Gillies has done since being drafted is win games and put up really good numbers. He's been on pretty much a steady upward trajectory, which is rare for a goalie as their performance can often go up and down. He did some of his best work in severe pain on a wonky hip. Just imagine what he can do now that it's been corrected.

Yeah, he missed a year due to surgery. I think we're all a little concerned about how he'll do after that, so it's fair play to mention it. What doesn't make sense is how people lump Gillies in with all the other goalies we've had in our system over the years: Krahn, Irving, McElhinney, etc. Now people want to lump him in with guys like McDonald, Schneider, Parsons etc. Sorry, but he's proved more than any of those guys mentioned and he deserves recognition as a legitimate top prospect.

If people want to argue that they think Kylington, Hickey, Andersson, Mangiapane...whoever...will end up being better, that's fine...just do that. Don't talk like Gillies is a bust. Not only is it premature, it's ignoring a lot of data that says just about anything other than a goalie who is going to bust.

Besides, doesn't anyone think the Flames are overdue to have a drafted goalie finally work out?

What a fantastic post, thanking it was simply not enough.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Jesus...

All Gillies has done since being drafted is win games and put up really good numbers. He's been on pretty much a steady upward trajectory, which is rare for a goalie as their performance can often go up and down. He did some of his best work in severe pain on a wonky hip. Just imagine what he can do now that it's been corrected.

Yeah, he missed a year due to surgery. I think we're all a little concerned about how he'll do after that, so it's fair play to mention it. What doesn't make sense is how people lump Gillies in with all the other goalies we've had in our system over the years: Krahn, Irving, McElhinney, etc. Now people want to lump him in with guys like McDonald, Schneider, Parsons etc. Sorry, but he's proved more than any of those guys mentioned and he deserves recognition as a legitimate top prospect.

If people want to argue that they think Kylington, Hickey, Andersson, Mangiapane...whoever...will end up being better, that's fine...just do that. Don't talk like Gillies is a bust. Not only is it premature, it's ignoring a lot of data that says just about anything other than a goalie who is going to bust.

Besides, doesn't anyone think the Flames are overdue to have a drafted goalie finally work out?

This is golden. In the 1st ranked prospect thread you were going on about how Tkachuk has done so much more as a prospect then Gillies. Now you're saying all Gillies has done is win game and put numbers. Do you just post to see how many thanks you can get from Flames fans?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

This is golden. In the 1st ranked prospect thread you were going on about how Tkachuk has done so much more as a prospect then Gillies. Now you're saying all Gillies has done is win game and put numbers. Do you just post to see how many thanks you can get from Flames fans?

No.

You see, I can still rank Tkachuk ahead of Gillies because that's my prerogative to evaluate him slightly higher. IMO Tkachuk did do more (or at least as much as) Gillies in a short amount of time, although it's apples and oranges (forward vs. goalie, junior vs. college).

It'd be great if you stopped stalking my posts just to call me out for stuff that's not true. Take your personal beef elsewhere, I've got no time for it.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

No.

You see, I can still rank Tkachuk ahead of Gillies because that's my prerogative to evaluate him slightly higher. IMO Tkachuk did do more (or at least as much as) Gillies in a short amount of time, although it's apples and oranges (forward vs. goalie, junior vs. college).

It'd be great if you stopped stalking my posts just to call me out for stuff that's not true. Take your personal beef elsewhere, I've got no time for it.

I'm stalking you? Why would I have a personal beef with you? I wouldn't waste my time on you. I'm simply calling a poster out on a discussion that I and he were having few days ago.

That day you said Tkachuk has done a lot more then Gillies and now you say all Gillies has done is win games, put up numbers on an upward trajectory. So what more could Gillies have done to put up numbers equal or better to Tkachuk?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Personally I look at prospects and see if they meet a checklist.

1 - Do they have the physical attributes to play in the NHL? Do they have the size? Do they have a frame that will them to take the abuse of the pro game?

2 - Do they have the smarts to play in the NHL? Do they think the game well or do they display a high level of play that indicates they do things instinctively? The latter usually indicates a special player.

3 - Do they do anything exceptionally? Average skills doesn't get you a job in the toughest league in the world. You need to do something that makes you standout.

4 - Does the player display drive and character? The difference between being a pro and an elite player is usually not just talent alone, it is drive and determination. How do these guys deal with adversity? Do they pick their team up when they are down? Do they show leadership, whether intentionally or unintentionally?

5 - How has the development curve been? I like to see these players show some growth and improvement in weak areas in their games. Has a player shown growth?

I like players that check these boxes because the guys that have made it to the show more often than not display all of these qualities. There are exceptions along the way, but usually only because someone has or does something that is exceptional that allows them to get past one of these five hurdles. A player needs to have the tools to play in the NHL. Without them there isn't much chance.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

I'm stalking you? Why would I have a personal beef with you? I wouldn't waste my time on you. I'm simply calling a poster out on a discussion that I and he were having few days ago.

That day you said Tkachuk has done a lot more then Gillies and now you say all Gillies has done is win games, put up numbers on an upward trajectory. So what more could Gillies have done to put up numbers equal or better to Tkachuk?

Nothing. That's the problem with apples and oranges comparisons.

What I'm saying is that Tkachuk put up gaudy numbers in one season, and Gillies put up good numbers in several seasons. They both won championships, but Tkachuk did it right away and it took Gillies a few years to get there (not that it's all on one player in either case).

Plus, if you look back to my original argument, it was about which player has a greater chance of being a star in the NHL, not necessarily about whether Gillies was good or not. He's good, very good, I said as much at the time. But what I added is that there are more question marks around Gillies than Tkachuk...at least for me. Hence the slightly lower ranking.

That's it.

Satisfied?

[N26]

Originally Posted by New Era

Personally I look at prospects and see if they meet a checklist.

1 - Do they have the physical attributes to play in the NHL? Do they have the size? Do they have a frame that will them to take the abuse of the pro game?

2 - Do they have the smarts to play in the NHL? Do they think the game well or do they display a high level of play that indicates they do things instinctively? The latter usually indicates a special player.

3 - Do they do anything exceptionally? Average skills doesn't get you a job in the toughest league in the world. You need to do something that makes you standout.

4 - Does the player display drive and character? The difference between being a pro and an elite player is usually not just talent alone, it is drive and determination. How do these guys deal with adversity? Do they pick their team up when they are down? Do they show leadership, whether intentionally or unintentionally?

5 - How has the development curve been? I like to see these players show some growth and improvement in weak areas in their games. Has a player shown growth?

I like players that check these boxes because the guys that have made it to the show more often than not display all of these qualities. There are exceptions along the way, but usually only because someone has or does something that is exceptional that allows them to get past one of these five hurdles. A player needs to have the tools to play in the NHL. Without them there isn't much chance.

I agree with this.

My post on the importance of the development curve got lost at the end of the last poll but I wrote about how important it is for me to see prospects 'checking the boxes'. Things like the above qualities and also experiencal boxes such as:

-did they get significant playoff experience/win championships?
-if in an overage year (CHL) or Jr/Sr year(s) (NCAA) did they dominate as they should?
-if in Europe did they rise a league level or more(ie Sweden Jrs->Allsvenskan->SHL)
-did they make their country's World Jr team?
-was their first year in the AHL considered successful/impactful?
-even 'did they come to Development Camp and do well? (looking at you Rafikov!)

and so on. They don't have to check every box but the more they have the higher I rank them.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by N26

I agree with this.

My post on the importance of the development curve got lost at the end of the last poll but I wrote about how important it is for me to see prospects 'checking the boxes'. Things like the above qualities and also experiencal boxes such as:

-did they get significant playoff experience/win championships?
-if in an overage year (CHL) or Jr/Sr year(s) (NCAA) did they dominate as they should?
-if in Europe did they rise a league level or more(ie Sweden Jrs->Allsvenskan->SHL)
-did they make their country's World Jr team?
-was their first year in the AHL considered successful/impactful?
-even 'did they come to Development Camp and do well? (looking at you Rafikov!)

and so on. They don't have to check every box but the more they have the higher I rank them.

This bugs me. When considering CHL hockey, "overage" refers to playing junior hockey as a 20 year old. You're putting a whole new meaning to it which is confusing and inaccurate.