Calgary Cops caught using excessive force?

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

There's a big difference between being an eyewitness to something that happens over just a few seconds, and having a recording that you can watch as many times as you want.

I don't need to be a cop or an expert in police tactics to see that this guy was not threatening these guys when that one cop took extremely aggressive action, and punched him in the face while he was lying on the ground. And pulled his hair, for whatever reason.

But on the other hand, I am not an expert and I don't know all the rules. Maybe punching a prone person in the the face and pulling his hair while you have your knee on his neck is a perfectly acceptable. Could be in the rulebook for all I know.

If it is, it probably shouldn't be.

Perspective is everything, and clearly the police do not agree with this assessment, given the press release. And i imagine we will have at least 3 or 4 use of force experts weighing in in the media in the coming days.

[OMG!WTF!]

My question is...is this the only option for dealing with unarmed, 60 year old, 150lbs d bags. Or is there a better way?

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

So what evidence, from this thread, can you provide proving that there is a clear misconception about force required?

You must mean in general since it is impossible to clearly determine that the individual in the video required force and was resisting. Unless of course you know more about the video than the rest of us.

Cecil watch a use of force presentation, watch a dozen for that matter, take some actual training see what it takes to subdue a person who is resisting. Then as I've said to people on CP dozens of times, go for a ride along to understand how these situations play out. They are dynamic and change is a blink of an eye, then you might have a better understanding of the reasoning behind an officers actions.

[Mister Yamoto]

That's nothing. The man walked away unharmed.

Imagine what they do to the homeless when there are no witnesses.

[dammage79]

Looks like one punch too many to me. But not egregious levels of excessive force. It'll be a video the officer on the torso of the dude to look back and ask "what could I have done differently" in future similar situations.

If I were to critique things a little bit, I'd contend they focused too much on keeping him on his back on not focusing on turning him over to a much easier more manageable arrest position. It's pretty easy to do if you have his legs and one arm in control. A twist of the legs to direct roll and keep his arm straight while rolling him over in concert. Other arm ends up under his body, and you can get at it once you have the first arm behind his back and in cuffs.

There's always room for improvement and as with anything, you take those lessons and learn from them. Just consider this though, we could be watching cops in the states here using all sorts of reckless techniques instead of 3 glancing blows to get the guy to co-operate.

I feel for the level of excessive force some are thinking the one officer committed, he'd have to rain down a few more targeted hard blows for a legitimate reason to investigate.

I don't think I'm exhonerating the cop here as much as saying there's some learning from experience here that will help him become a better cop.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by underGRADFlame

My thoughts on this thread...

Spoiler!

Edit.. Sorry didn't realize how big the surround was.

People who capture photos by using screenshot on their phones in the incorrect orientation should be banned from the internet and made to wear a sign on a street corner which confesses their crimes.

[peter12]

I lived in the Beltline for 8 years, and I dealt with the police a ton. The vast majority of my interactions were completely positive - exemplary in fact.

There's a taxonomy of police officers that can be pretty accurately used to judge the reasons why they became a police officer. Massive jacked d-bag with sleeve tattoos and crew cut? Stay clear.

Then there were police officers who enjoyed their job, understood the risks, and had the intelligence to ascertain the proper response to an individual posing risk to the public and to themselves. I saw officers go out of their way to treat the poor, sick, and pathetic with dignity and compassion, while still upholding the law.

These guys look like the former. Oh, they all have crew cuts.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by underGRADFlame

Cecil watch a use of force presentation, watch a dozen for that matter, take some actual training see what it takes to subdue a person who is resisting. Then as I've said to people on CP dozens of times, go for a ride along to understand how these situations play out. They are dynamic and change is a blink of an eye, then you might have a better understanding of the reasoning behind an officers actions.

What does any of what you said have anything to do with the non-resisting man in the video? Or any of my post in general?

You can only trot out the condescending speech that you just know better than the rest of us so many times.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Methanolic

Maybe a bit off topic but I will say that the black and white CPS cars are ridiculous and I see them as very intimidating looking. Those cars (IMO) send a message, "Fear Us".

That was ridiculous when Edmonton and Calgary Police both chose to go with the black and white, intimidating looking police car set ups, taking after the push back to it in the States to push fear and intimidation.

Canadian police forces are generally good at separating themselves from the militarization and intimidating nature of American police, but they still follow them to a certain extent.

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

What does any of what you said have anything to do with the non-resisting man in the video? Or any of my post in general?

You can only trot out the condescending speech that you just know better than the rest of us so many times.

I am of the opinion that the man in the video was resisting, you clearly think differently.

And I am just reflecting the holier than thou attitude you are projecting, because clearly you know how to deal with people better than the police did in the video.

[RinkRat]

Originally Posted by jayswin

That was ridiculous when Edmonton and Calgary Police both chose to go with the black and white, intimidating looking police car set ups, taking after the push back to it in the States to push fear and intimidation.

Canadian police forces are generally good at separating themselves from the militarization and intimidating nature of American police, but they still follow them to a certain extent.

Really? Am I missing some implied green text? Or am I missing a basic instinct to fear black and white? I've never attributed that look to be something intimidating but I've always been around police influences my whole life so maybe it's something I've never perceived.

The decision for the switch to black and white was the result of a number of factors, and yes the mimic of the American look was discussed at that time. But their was also a desire to differ the City police vehicles from other organizations such as the sheriff's and the Rcmp. Their was also a trend among many municiple services to make that switch in Canada at the time.

I'm told one of the major reasons was simply for a change and black and white in North America stands out as a police look for easy recognition.

I received that information first hand from a member of that selection committee, although he says the design he wanted was better

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by RinkRat

Really? Am I missing some implied green text? Or am I missing a basic instinct to fear black and white? I've never attributed that look to be something intimidating but I've always been around police influences my whole life so maybe it's something I've never perceived.

The decision for the switch to black and white was the result of a number of factors, and yes the mimic of the American look was discussed at that time. But their was also a desire to differ the City police vehicles from other organizations such as the sheriff's and the Rcmp. Their was also a trend among many municiple services to make that switch in Canada at the time.

I'm told one of the major reasons was simply for a change and black and white in North America stands out as a police look for easy recognition.

I received that information first hand from a member of that selection committee, although he says the design he wanted was better

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

I'll try and find some links, but I remember at the time it was being discussed it was shown that American police forces were switching back to black and white as the black and white kits, mixed with more intimidating looking mods on the cars were proven to be more intimidating than more minimalist cars with "softer" yet still obviously indentifiable colours.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by jayswin

That was ridiculous when Edmonton and Calgary Police both chose to go with the black and white, intimidating looking police car set ups, taking after the push back to it in the States to push fear and intimidation.

Canadian police forces are generally good at separating themselves from the militarization and intimidating nature of American police, but they still follow them to a certain extent.

IIRC city police cars were black and white until the late 70's early 80's.

Nothing to do with intimidation or anything of the sort but an identifier and going back to their roots i suspect.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by transplant99

IIRC city police cars were black and white until the late 70's early 80's.

Nothing to do with intimidation or anything of the sort but an identifier and going back to their roots i suspect.

And they are significantly cheaper per car, since the base model comes in black, so they just need to buy the white door/identifying stickers.

[4X4]

I can't believe what I'm reading. "Fear us"? "Intimidating mods"? You guys are seriously so sensitive, that you're scared of cops now because they are using the two most basic colours, and they put bully bars on the fronts of their cars, maybe to reduce damage?

Lol. So the the 3 cop dog pile wasn't enough. Now we get to be scared of their cars, too. Let's paint them orange and yellow just to make sure we don't scare people.

[Methanolic]

Originally Posted by RinkRat

Really? Am I missing some implied green text? Or am I missing a basic instinct to fear black and white? I've never attributed that look to be something intimidating but I've always been around police influences my whole life so maybe it's something I've never perceived.



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Police Car:




Fear Us;




Totally reminds me of this;

Max says Hi,

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Methanolic

Saw an ex cop (who is also a psychologist) on the National last week describing how (in his professional observations and opinion) Police forces across our continent are more often escalating violence during confrontations instead of using (what he called) more traditional methods with the intent of calming the situation.

The whole intimidation thing does seem to be North American. Police in the UK and the rest of Europe look and act pretty much like normal people. North American police tend to be jacked up, and carry themselves with a deliberate swagger. It seems the job attracts a different type of person here than in Europe.

[Methanolic]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I can't believe what I'm reading. "Fear us"? "Intimidating mods"?

Seriously?

Its one step below an armored personnel vehicle visually.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Methanolic

Seriously?

Its one step below an armored personnel vehicle visually.

Holy crap. So if I threw some white doors on my black truck, everyone is gonna fear me? Why didn't I think of this before?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Holy crap. So if I threw some white doors on my black truck, everyone is gonna fear me? Why didn't I think of this before?

That's pretty disengenuous and seems intentionally missing the point.

I think it's hard to argue that the top pic Methanolic posted isnt less intimidating compared to the black and white one.