Canada Post likely will be locked out/on strike - July 2

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

The problem is that person will get all the benefits that people who actually fought for it earned them. In a lot of cases most employees who cross picket lines end up quitting their job because their coworkers no longer want anything to do with them.

Wait, didn't you play dumb earlier when someone suggested that no employee was going to fight the union? You made a comment about it being their right to go after the union management if they were unhappy.

But now you're acknowledging and advocating some of the more classless behaviour by union members towards people who want to continue to earn a living?

So how do you figure that no retribution will be taken against people who stand up to management?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

In my experience they are typically just people with no backbone who are willing to work for less than they deserve. But you're entitled to your opinion. Have you ever known anyone who's crossed a picket line?

Whoa...thats a loaded statement. What exactly do they 'deserve?'

Says who? Based on what metrics?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Sliver

It doesn't make them wrong; it makes their coworkers wrong.

How so?

That employee made a choice to do what they did, their coworkers don't have to like it. If that employee helped prolong the strike, all their coworkers suffered for it, I wouldn't associate with someone who made my life more difficult and then wants to reap the rewards of my suffering. However if that person chose to quit the union during the work stoppage and continue working there in management I would have no issue with it. Basically it comes down to cake eating at the expense of others.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Locke

Whoa...thats a loaded statement. What exactly do they 'deserve?'

Says who? Based on what metrics?

It's yet another transparent way for him to slip in his anti CP sentiment. Check the thread, he's been making remarks like that from day 1.

At least our other union shill, Resurrection, doesn't pretend to be unbiased. That's commitment.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Locke

Whoa...thats a loaded statement. What exactly do they 'deserve?'

Says who? Based on what metrics?

Economics? Do you think companies are gonna simply hand over raises based on their profits? The sad fact of the matter is most companies lowball employees in order to increase profit margins. Why should an employee not make a fair living if their company is doing well? The company will always ask for concessions when times are tough, yet you rarely hear of a company coming out and saying "hey we had record profits last year, you're all getting a raise!"

Unfortunately the typical response to a great quarter is a meeting between the bosses at how to increase those profits, which usually comes down to cutting costs and making their employees do more work without any extra compensation.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Economics? Do you think companies are simply hand over raises based on their profits? The sad fact of the matter is most companies lowball employees in order to increase profit margins. Why should an employee not make a fair living if their company is doing well? The company will always ask for concessions when times are tough, yet you rarely hear of a company coming out and saying "hey we had record profits last year, you're all getting a raise!"

Unfortunately the typical response to a great quarter is a meeting between the bosses at how to increase those profits, which usually comes down to cutting costs and making their employees do more work without any extra compensation.

You mean a bonus? Companies set benchmarks and if they're achieved issue bonuses?

You're right, I've never heard of that. Its never happened in the history of recorded time. This is brand new, cutting-edge economic thinking in regards to Agency.

Man oh man, when Joe Ceci's term expires you should be all over it!

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

It's yet another transparent way for him to slip in his anti CP sentiment. Check the thread, he's been making remarks like that from day 1.

At least our other union shill, Resurrection, doesn't pretend to be unbiased. That's commitment.

Anti CP? Care to back that up? I don't agree with their negotiating tactics, other than that I have no issue with their company. I use their service all the time.

I don't care if you don't agree with what I have to say, but to try and insinuate I'm against CP in general is a really unfounded statement.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Locke

You mean a bonus? Companies set benchmarks and if they're achieved issue bonuses?

You're right, I've never heard of that. Its never happened in the history of recorded time. This is brand new, cutting-edge economic thinking in regards to Agency.

Man oh man, when Joe Ceci's term expires you should be all over it!

I didn't say never, you did. Yeah bonuses are fantastic! If more employers gave them, maybe people wouldn't look for a guaranteed wage increase to make up for their lack of one?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

How so?

That employee made a choice to do what they did, their coworkers don't have to like it. If that employee helped prolong the strike, all their coworkers suffered for it, I wouldn't associate with someone who made my life more difficult and then wants to reap the rewards of my suffering. However if that person chose to quit the union during the work stoppage and continue working there in management I would have no issue with it. Basically it comes down to cake eating at the expense of others.

So much entitlement in one post. Here goes:

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

How so?

That employee made a choice to do what they did, their coworkers don't have to like it. If that employee helped prolong the strike, all their coworkers suffered for it, I wouldn't associate with someone who made my life more difficult and then wants to reap the rewards of my suffering.

Helped prolong the strike? If they're working it's safe to say they didn't want the strike. It's the strikers who are responsible for the strike; not the guy who opted not to strike. Like, how do you even confuse the very basis of what is happening.

Also, it's you (immaturely, BTW) making their life difficult by A. striking and B. treating them like scum after the strike is over.

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

However if that person chose to quit the union during the work stoppage and continue working there in management I would have no issue with it. Basically it comes down to cake eating at the expense of others.

You'd have no issue with them promoting themselves to management. WTF are you even talking about? People can't opt to give themselves a promotion into management. That's just not a thing, but I guess it's pretty chill of you to have 'no issue' with that lol.

Nobody is trying to eat cake at the expense of you. It's like union guys act like they're toddlers or something.

It's so clear the union just tries to bully its members onto the same page. The only ones with balls in these things are the scabs. They have character. The screeching hyenas yelling in their faces not so much.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

In my experience they are typically just people with no backbone who are willing to work for less than they deserve. But you're entitled to your opinion. Have you ever known anyone who's crossed a picket line?

In my opinion, any employee should be free to negotiate or accept any offer and work terms from their employer. If they are happy with a set of terms from Canada Post they should be able to accept those terms outside of the union. If they don't feel that they can get a good enough deal or feel that a union can represent them better they can join the union and let them fight for a better deal.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think CUPW is going to find out that their usual tactics of bluster and walking off of the job and then having the government step into the negotiations is going to fail.

With their pension 6 billion dollars in debt this is the battle ground that's going to make or break this union. Also with the damage mostly already being done with parcel posts going to their competition, and normal mail being easily replaced by electronic, there's no need for CP to rush people back to work with a deal that continues to bloat the pension, and increases payroll.

The government has basically said they're not going to intervene, so I think the expectation is to break the resolve of the union.

So um have a nice summer.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Wait, didn't you play dumb earlier when someone suggested that no employee was going to fight the union? You made a comment about it being their right to go after the union management if they were unhappy.

But now you're acknowledging and advocating some of the more classless behaviour by union members towards people who want to continue to earn a living?

So how do you figure that no retribution will be taken against people who stand up to management?

The two things are completely different situations, one deals with a leadership group not fairly representing their membership or allowing the democratic process to be the deciding factor, the other involves someone who is trying to have their cake and eat it too, rather then accept what is expected out of them by choosing to be a union member and enjoy the benefits of that choice.

The union is the employees, not their office, unions work democratically, if your membership votes in favour of strike action, then that is the action you take, not happy with it? Leave the union, it's part of the package with the benefits you get from it, that person knows that going into it.

Where did I say management wouldn't try to get retribution? I'm not saying they will or won't. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesnt. Management can do what they like, with or without a union, fortunately with a union you don't have to accept it when it starts to cross a line or infringes on your rights.

[CaptainCrunch]

If Unions were so democratic why did they fight so hard against the opt out provisions that the Conservatives wanted to put in place?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

In my experience they are typically just people with no backbone who are willing to work for less than they deserve. But you're entitled to your opinion. Have you ever known anyone who's crossed a picket line?

Maybe they're people who have bills to pay and can't afford to be on the picket line. Strike pay doesn't come close to replacing wages lost.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

In my opinion, any employee should be free to negotiate or accept any offer and work terms from their employer. If they are happy with a set of terms from Canada Post they should be able to accept those terms outside of the union. If they don't feel that they can get a good enough deal or feel that a union can represent them better they can join the union and let them fight for a better deal.

Employees can negotiate and accept any offer and work terms from their employer. Unless the choose to work in a union, it's not like it's a bait and switch, you are made well aware that you will be in a union when you are hired. Don't like it? No one is forcing you to work there. Feel the union isn't representing your best interest? You are free to make an attempt to decertify your union, the catch is you have to get the other members on board.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Employees can negotiate and accept any offer and work terms from their employer. Unless the choose to work in a union, it's not like it's a bait and switch, you are made well aware that you will be in a union when you are hired. Don't like it? No one is forcing you to work there. Feel the union isn't representing your best interest? You are free to make an attempt to decertify your union, the catch is you have to get the other members on board.

Or, you know, the other members could just not be total dicks to you if you decided not to be a lemming along with them.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Or, you know, the other members could just not be total dicks to you if you decided not to be a lemming along with them.

Jesus Christ. I don't think you know how collective bargaining works. By sticking together the group increases their leverage to get a fair deal. By crossing they're being selfish, full stop. They're not being "anti lemming". God what a stupid comment.

Obviously there's much worse things than a scab, but being a line crossing scab is like stabbing your fellow worker in the back. It's a greedy and selfish move.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Employees can negotiate and accept any offer and work terms from their employer. Unless the choose to work in a union, it's not like it's a bait and switch, you are made well aware that you will be in a union when you are hired. Don't like it? No one is forcing you to work there. Feel the union isn't representing your best interest? You are free to make an attempt to decertify your union, the catch is you have to get the other members on board.

Or we can open things up with right to work legislation so that anyone can work any job if they have the proper qualifications and a desire to do that work.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Employees can negotiate and accept any offer and work terms from their employer. Unless the choose to work in a union, it's not like it's a bait and switch, you are made well aware that you will be in a union when you are hired. Don't like it? No one is forcing you to work there. Feel the union isn't representing your best interest? You are free to make an attempt to decertify your union, the catch is you have to get the other members on board.

That's pretty dictatorial, the union and the workers don't own the company, yet they can dictate who can work there by forcing you to accept union membership in order to make a living.

I guess the question is, what if I work for CP and the CUPW and I'm jewish, and I don't want to work for a union that's basically been an Anti-Israel Lobby Group. Should I be forced to give up my income and a job that I've been with for the last x number of years because while I love my job, my union doesn't represent me?

That's pretty dictatorial?

I know its an extreme example. But frankly every employee should have the right to opt out if they don't feel that the union represents them or their interests and not have to quit my job or feel threatened in it by a bunch of angry union workers.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Jesus Christ. I don't think you know how collective bargaining works. By sticking together the group increases their leverage to get a fair deal. By crossing they're being selfish, full stop. They're not being "anti lemming". God what a stupid comment.

Obviously there's much worse things than a scab, but being a line crossing scab is like stabbing your fellow worker in the back. It's a greedy and selfish move.

So if the goal is to get a fair deal and not be greedy and selfish, wouldn't the guy that thinks the existing deal is fair be behaving in a way that wasn't greedy and selfish to accept that? If he was trying to get more than what he thought was fair, then he would be acting greedy and selfish by striking - the exact type of behaviour you claim to abhor.