The New American Politics thread

[ernie]

Originally Posted by peter12

Good for Hilary in short-term, but bad for Democrats in long-term?

I think the opposite.

Short term she'll see a drop in the polls as people react to the "she's stupid" portion of things. Long term the fact no charges will be laid will carry the day and the GOP chorus of corrupt will ring hollow.

It'll also help that they have Trump to talk about: lawsuit after lawsuit, business failure after business failure, shuffling campaign money into his businesses etc etc etc etc. These things aren't going to go away for Trump anytime soon. And to be frank it just went away for Clinton. It took some of her skin and cut her up a bit but she still very much has her head.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Could any regular government worker get off without any repercussions for mishandling classified information because they were too stupid to know any better? It's quite sad to see how impervious the Clintons are to any kind of fallout from their actions

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Could any regular government worker get off without any repercussions for mishandling classified information because they were too stupid to know any better? It's quite sad to see how impervious the Clintons are to any kind of fallout from their actions

If the intent wasn't there absolutely. And I imagine it happens hundreds of times a day in Washington. People really do suck at handling sensitive an secret information properly.

[PsYcNeT]

http://www.wthr.com/story/32373716/s...-lying-african

The photo shows a vehicle similar to a golf cart decorated with Donald Trump presidential campaign signs and American flags. On one end of the vehicle is a motif of a lion with the words "African lion" on a sign underneath it. At the other end is an effigy of President Barack Obama waving, placed on top of a bucket that says "Royal Flush" with the words "Lying-African"

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by peter12

Good for Hilary in short-term, but bad for Democrats in long-term?

As is usually the case in these types of things, likely to be irrelevant. The people who were against her before hate her more. So that changes nothing. The people who were indifferent before are still indifferent. There was a reason they didn't care. The people who support her feel vindicated. Which again changes nothing. Unless there can be some way to paint this as a massive cover up, it changes nothing. And given that Trump is the one who will be leading that attempt...altogether now....it changes nothing. Whole thing was a waste of time, anyone with any semblance of how things work knew this was the endgame. Massive waste of money too most likely.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

As is usually the case in these types of things, likely to be irrelevant. The people who were against her before hate her more. So that changes nothing. The people who were indifferent before are still indifferent. There was a reason they didn't care. The people who support her feel vindicated. Which again changes nothing. Unless there can be some way to paint this as a massive cover up, it changes nothing. And given that Trump is the one who will be leading that attempt...altogether now....it changes nothing. Whole thing was a waste of time, anyone with any semblance of how things work knew this was the endgame. Massive waste of money too most likely.

It is bizarre that the FBI didn't recommend prosecution. Bizarre.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Should they have just prosecute for the sake of doing so? If they prosecuted and she walked the reaction would be the same as it is now, she was protected. FBI is in a no-win situation unless they summarily convict her. No matter what as long as she walks, people will think its because of who she is. It is fun though to see the #BernieOrBust supporters totally melting down since they believed the indictment was the white knight to save Bernie, ignoring the Biden/Warren ticket was waiting in the wings anyway.

[peter12]

I mean, Bill Clinton did have a private meeting with the AG in her private plan like two days before the FBI presser.

Oh to be a Clinton in America.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by peter12

It is bizarre that the FBI didn't recommend prosecution. Bizarre.

Yeah, just listen to the FBI's bizarre attempt to justify it:

In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.

Crazy, right? Using a lack of precedent of charges in similar cases as reason not to recommend prosecution here? What is the world coming to where they can't just throw charges at somebody because one political party has been saying for months that she's clearly guilty?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

It is fun though to see the #BernieOrBust supporters totally melting down since they believed the indictment was the white knight to save Bernie, ignoring the Biden/Warren ticket was waiting in the wings anyway.

Drink!

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by peter12

I mean, Bill Clinton did have a private meeting with the AG in her private plan like two days before the FBI presser.

Oh to be a Clinton in America.

I'm sure Trump will be riding this one hard. Problem for him is in doing he'll likely make multiple misogynistic and racist comments (Lynch being black of course) which will ruin any attempt to make a valid point. If only he could ever tone himself down he might have a chance. But it's more fun watching him unhinged right?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Drink!

I am. People in London are lushes haha. Gotta keep up. But seriously #BernieOrBusters are pretty much worse than Trump supporters. I expect stupidity from Trump supporters.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I'm sure Trump will be riding this one hard. Problem for him is in doing he'll likely make multiple misogynistic and racist comments (Lynch being black of course) which will ruin any attempt to make a valid point. If only he could ever tone himself down he might have a chance. But it's more fun watching him unhinged right?

That is the worst part. A disciplined Republican candidate would be tearing her apart right now. At this stage, it looks like Americans should just choose the meteor.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Yeah, just listen to the FBI's bizarre attempt to justify it:



Crazy, right? Using a lack of precedent of charges in similar cases as reason not to recommend prosecution here? What is the world coming to where they can't just throw charges at somebody because one political party has been saying for months that she's clearly guilty?

Not everyone sees it that way...

There is no way of getting around this: According to Director James Comey (disclosure: a former colleague and longtime friend of mine), Hillary Clinton checked every box required for a felony violation of Section 793(f) of the federal penal code (Title 18): With lawful access to highly classified information she acted with gross negligence in removing and causing it to be removed it from its proper place of custody, and she transmitted it and caused it to be transmitted to others not authorized to have it, in patent violation of her trust. Director Comey even conceded that former Secretary Clinton was “extremely careless” and strongly suggested that her recklessness very likely led to communications (her own and those she corresponded with) being intercepted by foreign intelligence services.

[afc wimbledon]

There's no appetite to charge Clinton on either side of the fence, she's easily the weakest candidate the dems could field so it's not like the GOP want her gone, she's the only chance they have to save the house, the senate's probably a write off by now, and Bill has enough markers out there there's no way the Dems are pushing for it.

A Bidden Warren campaign could see an utter wipe out of the GOP of cataclysmic proportions

[HotHotHeat]

"To be clear, this is not to suggest that in similar circumstances, a person who engaged in this activity would face no consequences. To the contrary, those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions. But that is not what we are deciding now."

That...Is....Amazing.

Just a giant WTF.

[Hemi-Cuda]

It looks doubly bad when the FBI director flat out says that she's getting special treatment

"To be clear, this is not to suggest that in similar circumstances, a person who engaged in this activity would face no consequences. To the contrary, those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions. But that is not what we are deciding now."

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/pr...-e-mail-system

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

It looks doubly bad when the FBI director flat out says that she's getting special treatment



https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/pr...-e-mail-system

No, the director is saying that an employee might get written up for it at work but that no one would get charged criminally

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Should they have just prosecute for the sake of doing so?

No, they should have sent the evidence to a grand jury and let the grand jury decide whether to indict (or bill) or no-bill Hill.

Originally Posted by octothorp

Using a lack of precedent of charges in similar cases as reason not to recommend prosecution here?

How the FBI argues that Hillary didn't "clearly intentional[ly] and willful[ly] mishandl[e] classified information" is beyond me. She set up her own private run-around to skirt Federal policy and (in my view) Federal law in regards to the handling of classified information. It doesn't get much more intentional or willful than that.

[accord1999]

Zerohedge found an example of a person who did something similar and did get prosecuted for it:

https://www.fbi.gov/sacramento/press...fied-materials

The fine wasn't so much, but the loss of security clearance should mean the end of any government/military related career.