[Signing] Flames sign Brouwer (4 yrs, $4.5mil AAV, NTC)

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by bob-loblaw

Has anyone heard if there were any other teams that pursued him?

I recall talk of him ending up in Detroit.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

They're not even close to the same mold. God love Glencross, but he thought he was a better player then he was. He had an inconsistent work ethic, when he played hard he was great, when he didn't he was invisible. Broewer has a very high work ethic and a far more physical game then Curtis ever did.

Hitchcock raves about the guy.

Hitchcock was sad to see him leave and said something about having brought him in because of the way he holds the room accountable. BT said something about Brouwer being a leader through actions. I don't think Colborne fit the type of player BT wants for the team. I think the Flames are looking for experience, leadership and role players for the young guys.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

What a brutal signing. Brouwer is a career 30pt player. He signed for 1.5 million less than Backes, Eriksson, Lucic, and Okoposo. I would much rather pump another 1.5 million into an actual top 6 winger.



And then to give a NTC too? Trevy had such a good track record until this. The stupid obsession to be "truculent" and "heavy" is ridiculous.

This is not an educated post.

As has been pointed out, his average points are much higher. He's out scored Eriksson, Okposo, and Lucic over the past four years, and is far less penalised than both Backes and Lucic.

But sure, let's pay 1.5 million more and extend the contract three years for the less goals and more penalties Lucic would've given us. Fantastic strategy.

[1qqaaz]

Age is a pretty big factor in comparing Okposo with Brouwer. Okposo is 3 years younger, so 3 years of extra term kind of makes sense. There's a chance Okposo could still be heading towards his peak. Brouwer, on the other hand, is 31, and due to decline. Luckily, he hasn't show much sign of declining yet, and his durability is a good sign.

Durability is also important. Okposo has missed 10+ games twice in the past 4 years. Brouwer hasn't missed any. A lot of the cup-winning teams tend to have smaller amounts of injuries. When Boston won the cup in 2011, Horton was basically the only player with injury problems.

[Vinny01]

Would it shock anyone to see Brouwer have a career season next year? I think right now he is the top line RW and will get to play with Gaudreau who could help carry him like he did Hayes in the NCAA.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

This is not an educated post.

As has been pointed out, his average points are much higher. He's out scored Eriksson, Okposo, and Lucic over the past four years, and is far less penalised than both Backes and Lucic.

But sure, let's pay 1.5 million more and extend the contract three years for the less goals and more penalties Lucic would've given us. Fantastic strategy.

Lucic is a 50-60 point player while Brouwer is a 35-45 point player. Lucic's deal takes him until 35 and Brouwer's takes him until 34. Given the added toughness Lucic brings, I think the extra $1.5M for Lucic is definitely worth it when deciding between the two contracts.

Having said that, I think both contracts are bad and would have rather we stayed out of the big money, long term free agent market until we're ready to contend and the Gaudreau/Monahan/Bennett contracts are sorted (next off-season). The Chad Johnson contract, for example, was a fantastic move!

[devo22]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Lucic is a 50-60 point player while Brouwer is a 35-45 point player. Lucic's deal takes him until 35 and Brouwer's takes him until 34. Given the added toughness Lucic brings, I think the extra $1.5M for Lucic is definitely worth it when deciding between the two contracts.

I think people focus too much on age and underestimate the mileage. Lucic might be almost 3 years younger than Brouwer, but he has actually played in more NHL games than Brouwer has. Lucic has played in 748 NHL games (647 regular season + 101 playoffs), while Brouwer has played in 711 NHL games (613 regular season + 98 playoffs). Lucic came into the league at a very young age and has played a lot of hockey ... and guys who play that kind of game usually don't age too well.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Would it shock anyone to see Brouwer have a career season next year? I think right now he is the top line RW and will get to play with Gaudreau who could help carry him like he did Hayes in the NCAA.

I think this is wishful thinking, as he could also have the worst possible year next year. Different systems different line mates, etc.

dumb question which I am sure is already in this thread - how compares the talent on Calgary's top 1 or 2 lines compared to who he was playing with in St. Louis?

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

dumb question which I am sure is already in this thread - how compares the talent on Calgary's top 1 or 2 lines compared to who he was playing with in St. Louis?

he spent most of his time on a line with Paul Stastny, both in the regular season and in the playoffs. Played a lot with Alex Steen too, as well as Robby Fabbri and sometimes with David Backes.

TROY BROUWER ROBBY FABBRI PAUL STASTNY 6.46%
ALEXANDER STEEN PAUL STASTNY TROY BROUWER 5.57%
ALEXANDER STEEN TROY BROUWER DAVID BACKES 2.71%

[GioforPM]

I don't like UFA signings because teams rarely get their money's worth. That said this isn't crazy money and it's not really "first line" dough. When Johnny and Mony get their deals Brower will be middle of the team salary wise. Behind them, Gio, Hamilton, Brodie, Wideman. Ahead of Stajan, Backlund and of course all the ELC and two way type guys.

[Vinny01]

There is a really good chance the Brouwer and Frolik deals squeeze a guy like Backlund off the team in 2 years. Based off what we saw today Backlund will be walking into a 6 year $5.5M per deal. No way will the Flames be able to afford all 3 with Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Tkachuk 2nd contracts factored in

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

This is not an educated post.

As has been pointed out, his average points are much higher. He's out scored Eriksson, Okposo, and Lucic over the past four years, and is far less penalised than both Backes and Lucic.

But sure, let's pay 1.5 million more and extend the contract three years for the less goals and more penalties Lucic would've given us. Fantastic strategy.

The difference with Lucic and Okposo is that they are 3 years younger. The only thing that matters is how many more goals will Brouwer score. Not how many he has scored.

The Flames really did need a right winger in a bad way though. So I don't think Lucia was ever really an option. I doubt Backes or Okposo were very interested in playing in Calgary. So Brouwer being the guy who would come here got himself a big pile o money.

This is what happens to bad teams who don't draft well consistently. You overpay in free agency to get guys to fill big holes on your team.

[14]

He will be paired up with Bennett this year. Flames and most teams now work in pairs consistently not lines. The winger for them and Johnny and Monohan will be interchangeable. Brouwer will be on top PP unit.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I doubt Backes or Okposo were very interested in playing in Calgary.

and I would guess that the feeling was mutual. Both of those guys got 6m per year, which the Flames simply couldn't offer at this point. Plus people already moan about Brouwer being 34 at the end of his deal ... Backes will be 37.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

There is a really good chance the Brouwer and Frolik deals squeeze a guy like Backlund off the team in 2 years. Based off what we saw today Backlund will be walking into a 6 year $5.5M per deal. No way will the Flames be able to afford all 3 with Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Tkachuk 2nd contracts factored in

That's where you hope a Jankowski steps in and replaces him, ideally making him expendable before he hits UFA.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by New Era

No it isn't. You have lines where there are two RWs, lines that have two LWs, and no balance. The third line is small and will be easy to play against. I still don't know what your 4th line is supposed to accomplish? But most glaring is your first line. Tkachuk is a LW. He's also 18 years old with zero NHL games under his belt. He isn't even a NHL player at this point, let alone a first line player. You complain that Brouwer is not a 1st line player, but follow up with a player in that position that hasn't played a professional shift. Makes no sense.

Only thing that looks wonky to me is Shinkaruk on RW. The rest was fine. Frolik is a left shooting LW/RW.

Tkachuk is one of the top two most skilled wingers in the entire organization IMO. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he ends up playing with Gaudreau-Monahan, his game is a perfect fit for that line and he's a smart enough player to easily make the transition to RW. He's the most NHL ready prospect we've drafted in the 20 years I've been watching the Flames select kids. He's not a bad bet to end up on that line. In fact in a lot of ways he makes the most sense to end up on that line long term.

I suspect they'll try Brouwer with Gaudreau-Monahan at first but if it doesn't work out I'd suspect they'll try Tkachuk up there pretty quickly.

[oldschoolcalgary]

FWIW, there's practically zero media assessments (ie winners/losers lists) that see the Brouwer signing as a terrible/bad signing.

the only outlier is FN...but if one goes through the comments, a lot of Ari's assersions can be refuted.

i actually feel the orkposo signing is better than Lucic....if i were to chose

however, Brouwer is a guy that i think will surprise people... there's a chance he hits the wall in year 3 or 4, but that's the nature of free agency...

[gunnner]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

I think this is wishful thinking, as he could also have the worst possible year next year. Different systems different line mates, etc.

dumb question which I am sure is already in this thread - how compares the talent on Calgary's top 1 or 2 lines compared to who he was playing with in St. Louis?

I think he cracks 60 points next year and then takes its up a notch in the playoffs!

[devo22]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

FWIW, there's practically zero media assessments (ie winners/losers lists) that see the Brouwer signing as a terrible/bad signing.

the few that do think that it's a bad signing argue that he's a bottom six player because some fancy stats say so. And to be fair - if Brouwer was a bottom six player, then it would be a bad contract. But looking at his ice time and production in the last 5 years, it's simply not true. Among forwards on his team, he consistently was one of the most trusted players and best goalscorers.

WSH 2011-12: 4th in goals (18), 7th in points (33), 4th in TOI (17:10)
WSH 2012-13: 2nd in goals (19), 4th in points (33), 3rd in TOI (18:32)
WSH 2013-14: 2nd in goals (25), 5th in points (43), 3rd in TOI (18:50)
WSH 2014-15: 2nd in goals (21), 4th in points (43), 3rd in TOI (17:31)
STL 2015-16: 3rd in goals (18), 5th in points (39), 6th in TOI (16:59)

he's been used as a top 6 forward for years and now gets paid as such, simple as that.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by devo22

the few that do think that it's a bad signing argue that he's a bottom six player because some fancy stats say so. And to be fair - if Brouwer was a bottom six player, then it would be a bad contract. But looking at his ice time and production in the last 5 years, it's simply not true. Among forwards on his team, he consistently was one of the most trusted players and best goalscorers.

WSH 2011-12: 4th in goals (18), 7th in points (33), 4th in TOI (17:10)
WSH 2012-13: 2nd in goals (19), 4th in points (33), 3rd in TOI (18:32)
WSH 2013-14: 2nd in goals (25), 5th in points (43), 3rd in TOI (18:50)
WSH 2014-15: 2nd in goals (21), 4th in points (43), 3rd in TOI (17:31)
STL 2015-16: 3rd in goals (18), 5th in points (39), 6th in TOI (16:59)

he's been used as a top 6 forward for years and now gets paid as such, simple as that.

Agreed. And as others have mentioned, his line was often given the tougher matchups and defensive zone starts...this would naturally skew the stats a little towards the negative.