How would you rate the Flames' first day of free agency?

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Chad Johnson was fine, but nothing other than what's expected. But Brouwer's agent bending over Treliving puts this into an F grade.

There have been no commentators that I've heard who have said that we overpaid. In fact, on NHL Network Radio I've heard huge kudos for the Flames for the signing...both yesterday and today.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Not rating anything until we see how our signings play.

[Yrebmi]

Originally Posted by devo22

why does that make it worse?! Colborne knew he had a pretty good arbitration case after scoring 19 goals and 44 points, and given that he already wanted to take the Flames to arbitration once before, that was surely the leverage Colbornes camp used over the past few weeks. Treliving called the bluff and didn't qualify him, they probably still negotiated, then the Flames chose Brouwer over him and Colborne saw that he wasn't getting as much money on the free market as he had hoped. It's perfectly reasonable that he asked for more money ahead of yesterday, but then realized that he wouldn't get that much.

Regardless of prior negotiations Colborne did sign for 2 year 5 mil. That's a damn good price for a free agent signing.
Are you suggesting that the Flames camp simply quit trying to sign Joe after failing to reach term prior? I get that he didn't get what he initially wanted, so call him back after reality sets in. Or are you suggesting that Joe liked the Avs so much better that they signed him to a deal he would have refused Calgary?
Remember when the Oilers missed out on Glencross because they had their eyes set on another prize. This is similar - excepting of course the Oil actually failed to sign anyone of significance.

[EVERLAST]

BT did as well as you can do on a day where stuff is expensive and emotional.

I don't think for a minute that the Flames did any of this off the cuff.

Players contacting players, players wives getting into the mix and families getting involved.

Awesome day I say for the Flames but I won't get too high or too low.

Goalies addressed and he has started rebuilding from the net out which I think is a important part of success going forward.

Certain guys offered and some not as Brad let the cleaning process almost take care of itself.

I'm impressed as a fan since the beginning. We had Cliff Fletcher years ago and he knew how to build a team and we really haven't had anyone since.

A solid B for Brad.

I need to see what Glen G can do with this team.

Let's face it though.....in my mind Brad needs to redeem himself for the goalie situation last year.

Allot was made of the Brodie injury and Gio getting back from major surgery and Hamilton getting acclimatized here to start last year and for that and the fact we had no goaltending wow last year was a big reality check from the year before.

Our cupboards are stocked and we now need to see guys compete to make this team.

It's refreshing and I'll take pretty much whatever. People need to remember up until last year they were in every game and it was entertaining.

2016 - 2017 has a ton of potential.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

Are you suggesting that the Flames camp simply quit trying to sign Joe after failing to reach term prior? I get that he didn't get what he initially wanted, so call him back after reality sets in. Or are you suggesting that Joe liked the Avs so much better that they signed him to a deal he would have refused Calgary?

no, I think the Flames simply didn't want to sign Colborne for what he asked prior to yesterday and then chose Brouwer over him, which meant the end of Colborne in Calgary (they couldn't sign both for cap reasons). Joe then took the offer on the free market he liked best, and that's less money he probably envisioned.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

Keep in mind you guys, Treliving skirted the topic a bit (so as not to pull a Jim Benning), but when asked about Colborne, he said the price Colborne wanted was more than what he signed for in Colorado. That's what he told Steinberg and Pinder after the presser.

Treliving wasn't getting Colborne back for that $2.5M price tag, apparently.

On topic though, I would rate this free agency (so far) a B-.

The Johnson signing is outstanding. That guy's driven to perform and he and Elliot seem like one in the same person. That's going to be an outstanding tandem this season.

The Brouwer signing, however, is worrisome. All the signs looks as though Brouwer is a middle-6 winger. He fills that right-handed need on the both special teams, which is highly important for Gully. I'm certain his point totals will be inflated if he's slotted beside Gaudreau and Seanahan, but I just don't see $4.5M being worth it for the next four years. That's a huge risk. Nevermind that, but a full NTC for two years followed by a 15-team limited NTC the last two years.

Don't get me wrong, I like Brouwer, but in three years' time they'll likely be paying $4.5M for a fourth liner.

I agree everything PMM posted except I would drop the B- to a C or C- as I don't anticipate enough cap inflation for the 4.5M to be less significant in the final year. This contract will cost us the retention of a Jankowski or Kulak should those guys emerge as I feel they will. And if not them, then Backlund.

i am also mixed on the Johnson signing. I have no doubt it will reap short term rewards but I was confident that long term Ortio was the right choice.

[Yrebmi]

Originally Posted by devo22

no, I think the Flames simply didn't want to sign Colborne for what he asked prior to yesterday and then chose Brouwer over him, which meant the end of Colborne in Calgary (they couldn't sign both for cap reasons). Joe then took the offer on the free market he liked best, and that's less money he probably envisioned.

I think you're right excepting there remains room for a 2.5mil Colborne on this team. They simply missed it, and that's a fail.
Obviously I am a fan of Colborne. I want to give the day a D grade, but I am holding out hope Brouwer will impress enough to allow me to happily forget a late blooming local kid.

[JiriHrdina]

Are folks just ignoring the fact Colborne would not sign here for 2.5?

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Are just ignoring the fact Colborne would not sign here for 2.5?

Sure seem to be

[Yrebmi]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Are folks just ignoring the fact Colborne would not sign here for 2.5?

I don't buy that.
Won't dispute he thought he was worth more leading up, but at the end of the day when no one was offering more Joe would have signed here for the same.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

I don't buy that.
Won't dispute he thought he was worth more leading up, but at the end of the day when no one was offering more Joe would have signed here for the same.

Ok so you are choosing to base your position on something you've made up instead of what has been reported. Ok.

[oldschoolcalgary]

we have 14.9 to sign Johnny, Monahan and hopefully, Nakladal and Wotherspoon...

strip that down to 12.4 if we signed Colborne...

That number is simply not workable. Colborne's agent set the price too high imo and once the Flames signed Brouwer the decision was made not to resign Colborne.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

we have 14.9 to sign Johnny, Monahan and hopefully, Nakladal and Wotherspoon...

strip that down to 12.4 if we signed Colborne...

That number is simply not workable. Colborne's agent set the price too high imo and once the Flames signed Brouwer the decision was made not to resign Colborne.

Have no opinion on Colborne at this point -- it's done -- but that figure of 14.9 will likely increase by 3.5, if Smid goes on LTIR, which he probably will.

[Yrebmi]

What have I made up Jiri?
That I am dubious that Colborne would give the Avalanche a better deal than he would give the Flames? I stated my doubt.
What was reported is

where Joe was with us contractually with us was different than what he ended up signing

I interpret that as meaning what Joe was asking for before free agency began.
Again, not disputed Joe had an inflated sense of self worth and I imagine he got humbled when the 3-4mil a season offers failed to materialize.

Maybe he agreed to less based on something the Flames could not offer (ie like playing with Iginla). Other than that, it would appear Calgary just stopped calling after the initial break down in negotiations.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Are folks just ignoring the fact Colborne would not sign here for 2.5?

I have a hard time accepting that as fact based in the short comment BT made, unless there is more info out there. Did Colborne also say that? Yes BT implied that was the case but how much of that was spin? Remember the Drew Shore frenzy, and the calls they were receiving on Wideman? That is part of their job.

There seem to be many facts supporting that Colborne loved it in Calgary so not unreasonable to believe he would have signed here for a similar contract.

If I have missed hard information on this "fact" then I apologize in advance.

[JiriHrdina]

My understanding that when speaking to the media after, it was clear that BT was saying that Joe wouldn't take the same deal in Calgary that he got in Denver.
We don't know to what extent the Flames continued to try - it is entirely possible that after signing Brouwer they moved on.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Have no opinion on Colborne at this point -- it's done -- but that figure of 14.9 will likely increase by 3.5, if Smid goes on LTIR, which he probably will.

i think people have a misconception of how the LTIR works.

we can't just write off 3.5 million and have it disappear from the ledger. LTIR provides relief in terms of how much a team can exceed the cap by.

FAQ from capfriendly:

The league upper limit is $69M. A team has an averaged club salary of $68M and a player with a cap hit of $5M becomes injured and the team places him on LTIR. The team is now permitted to spend up to a new limit of $72M:

1. Cap hit of LTIR player is $5M
2. Amount of cap space available to team = $69M - $68M = $1M
3. Amount team can exceed the cap = $5M - $1M = $4M
4. New limit = $68M + $4M = $72M

so unless i am interpreting it incorrectly, if we spend 14.9 on johnny and monahan, for the sake of argument, putting Smid on LTIR would allow us an additional 3.5 million over the cap to sign Nakladal and wotherspoon for example

But ultimately, it is still my understanding that this is temporary and that one needs to be under the cap by the time the season starts?

can any posters smarter than me clarify?

[timbit]

A

Some are adamant that the Flames dropped the ball in not coming up with a qualifying offer and eventually losing Joe.
The Flames were not going to arbitration. Period. Nor was he tradable under the veil of potential arbitration.
When a agreeable number could not be negotiated, the Flames went in another direction.
They signed a player who is a consistent and hard to play against 40 point player who makes the players he plays with better.
It is doubtful that many here will claim that Joe had the wear with all to become that type of player.
Great person and an asset to the community but...he put all his chips in and lost to a far better hand.
Brouwer is a proven commodity who will make a big and positive difference to the Flames and specifically their young players.
That in itself is worth a good portion of what he is being paid.

[Strange Brew]

Well I guess we never really know exactly how things go down. It's disappointing to lose a young improving player for nothing and see him sign a reasonable contract elsewhere. Can't help but think it could have been played differently.

Not crippling. But if you are one of those people not really high on Brouwer, it looks a little worse.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

My understanding that when speaking to the media after, it was clear that BT was saying that Joe wouldn't take the same deal in Calgary that he got in Denver.
We don't know to what extent the Flames continued to try - it is entirely possible that after signing Brouwer they moved on.

Plus the reports right after the signing that Colborne turned down money elsewhere to go to Denver. Not saying it was Calgary, but it could have been. Goes along with what Treliving told the media