And you thought Guns on a plane was a bad idea

[pepper24]

Ha ha stupid Americans!

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Knives = used for cutting objects, like your dinner.

Bats = used for the game of baseball.

Cars = used for quicker transportation.

Gasoline = used in cars for quicker transportation.

Guns = used for...........

Get real. People don't need guns. What on earth do you need a gun for? Self defense? Mmhmm...

Who are you to tell others that they don't need guns? GB banned guns and their murder rate and violent crime rate went up.
that's a head scratcher isn't it?

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Who are you to tell others that they don't need guns? GB banned guns and their murder rate and violent crime rate went up.
that's a head scratcher isn't it?

Just saying there is no need for them, because there isn't. Why would you need one?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Because guns are the only thing that kill people eh. Might aswell ban everything. Knives, bats, cars, gasoline...anything that can kill a person.

You gun control people are the most short sighted people in the world.

Not nearly as short sighted as your arguement. Just because there's other ways to kill people, doesn't mean that guns aren't a problem.

By your arguement, we shouldn't even stop gansters from carrying guns, because they'd just use a car if we did that.

And it's funny that the people who use your arguement are usually the same people that want to control the third world in their race for nuclear arms.

Why stop N.Korea from having nukes? If we do, they'll just kill people with other methods instead.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Just saying there is no need for them, because there isn't. Why would you need one?

Because you feel there is no need for them, does not make it so.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Not nearly as short sighted as your arguement. Just because there's other ways to kill people, doesn't mean that guns aren't a problem.

By your arguement, we shouldn't even stop gansters from carrying guns, because they'd just use a car if we did that.

And it's funny that the people who use your arguement are usually the same people that want to control the third world in their race for nuclear arms.

Why stop N.Korea from having nukes? If we do, they'll just kill people with other methods instead.

Wow, that comparison is weak. The Un mandates through the IAEA who has nukes and who doesn't. Almost all countries signed on the the non-ploliferation treaty.

Disregarding the illogical argument that it's the 'gun's fault' the anti-gun people are missing the fact that there is ZERO chance of getting rid of guns in any society.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Wow, that comparison is weak. The Un mandates through the IAEA who has nukes and who doesn't. Almost all countries signed on the the non-ploliferation treaty.

Disregarding the illogical argument that it's the 'gun's fault' the anti-gun people are missing the fact that there is ZERO chance of getting rid of guns in any society.

That's not the argument I'm making.

The argument that Jolinar made was;
If people don't have guns they will use something else to kill, so don't regulate guns.

This argument could also be appllied to nukes in that case. e.g,
If people don't have nukes, they will use something else to kill, so don't regulate nukes.

What's the difference?

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Because guns are the only thing that kill people eh. Might aswell ban everything. Knives, bats, cars, gasoline...anything that can kill a person.

You gun control people are the most short sighted people in the world.

Hello Pot? It's me kettle...

Everything that (as you so wisely pointed out) can kill people also has a useful purpose...they are not designed to kill...guns on the other hand

Also, guns simply make killing too efficient and are perfect for the lazy crazies...without guns a significant number of people wouldn't die because the amount of work it would take the killer to get the job done...

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Who are you to tell others that they don't need guns? GB banned guns and their murder rate and violent crime rate went up.
that's a head scratcher isn't it?

Really?

Because if you actually try to look up Violent Crime Statistics for England and Wales, you'll see that the number of offences spiked in 1995 and has been dropping ever since.

If you want to talk specifically murder with firearms, I do believe the rate in England has gone up, but take a look at the Rate per 1,000 people
United Kingdom: 0.00102579 per 1,000 people
Canada : 0.00502972 per 1,000 people
United States : 0.0140633 per 1,000 people

UK is the lowest of the 32 countries listed.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Who are you to tell others that they don't need guns? GB banned guns and their murder rate and violent crime rate went up.
that's a head scratcher isn't it?

Correlation doesn't mean causation...perhaps there are other factors at play (see Freakonomics for an interesting take on the drop in crime rate)

I never understood why people think that having the ability to kill stuff is a right and/or makes their community safer.

Answer me this..
If we all had a remotely controlled device implanted in our bodies that would kill us instantly at the push of a button...and anyone could push our button anytime they wanted too...would we be safer?

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

Answer me this..
If we all had a remotely controlled device implanted in our bodies that would kill us instantly at the push of a button...and anyone could push our button anytime they wanted too...would we be safer?

Did you ever see that Twilight Zone episode, the one where a couple answer a knock at their door, and a fellow gives them a box with a button and tells them, "If you press the button you will be given $100,000; but someone you don't know, someone you have never even met will die. I will be back for the button tomorrow."

The episode is the couple's thought processes, rationalizations, and so on.

Very good episode.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

Correlation doesn't mean causation...perhaps there are other factors at play (see Freakonomics for an interesting take on the drop in crime rate)

I never understood why people think that having the ability to kill stuff is a right and/or makes their community safer.

Answer me this..
If we all had a remotely controlled device implanted in our bodies that would kill us instantly at the push of a button...and anyone could push our button anytime they wanted too...would we be safer?

That would be valid if guns were only used to kil people.
They are used for other things, like putting dinner ON the table.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Really?

Because if you actually try to look up Violent Crime Statistics for England and Wales, you'll see that the number of offences spiked in 1995 and has been dropping ever since.

If you want to talk specifically murder with firearms, I do believe the rate in England has gone up, but take a look at the Rate per 1,000 people
United Kingdom: 0.00102579 per 1,000 people
Canada : 0.00502972 per 1,000 people
United States : 0.0140633 per 1,000 people

UK is the lowest of the 32 countries listed.

Yes, the murder with a firearm, sorry that's what I was referring to. But that begs the question, does it not? There are still firearms in the country despite them being 'against the law'.

Clearly, the USA is more violent than most developed nations, but to make the correlation that is because of the high rate of gun ownership there, is illogical.
If all guns were outlawed, my money would be on the rate of gun homicides in the USA increasing, much like they did in GB.
I think we can all agree that criminals will always have guns. Making it illegal for law abiding citizens having them will not help and only make criminals more brazen. People should have the right to defend themselves from said criminals as well.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by White Doors

That would be valid if guns were only used to kil people.
They are used for other things, like putting dinner ON the table.

OK. How about we just ban hand guns and automatic weapons? Or maybe you're part of the NRA and think automatic and semi-auto guns are needed to kill the new species of super animals? (yeah, ignore the last sentence, I used to watch too many Simpson's episodes).

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by habernac

OK. How about we just ban hand guns and automatic weapons? Or maybe you're part of the NRA and think automatic and semi-auto guns are needed to kill the new species of super animals? (yeah, ignore the last sentence, I used to watch too many Simpson's episodes).

Hand guns are already virtually banned in Canada and Automatic guns are already 100% banned in Canada.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by White Doors

That would be valid if guns were only used to kil people.
They are used for other things, like putting dinner ON the table.

How many people do you know that use a gun to put dinner ON the table on a regular basis.?

I would wager that 99.9% of the meat consumed in this country was not killed by the person who is actually eating it. When is the last time you went out and shot something and brought it home and ate it? If you can actually remember doing such a thing, what percentage of your diet did that carcass represent?

But whatever. I've got nothing against hunting, per se, but it isn't a valid reason for everyone to own a firearm. If you are a hunter and you need a gun to hunt your food then fine. If you are a regular jackass on the street, there is no reason for you to own a handgun or assault rifle.

It seems so strange to me that people would argue that more guns = safer place to live. If that was the case, wouldn't the US be safer than, say, Sweden?

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Making it illegal for law abiding citizens having them will not help and only make criminals more brazen. People should have the right to defend themselves from said criminals as well.

While I sympathize with the sentiment, I don't agree with it.

I personally believe have guns around for self defense leads to more accidental shootings, and criminals more willing to shoot.

I don't have a problem with rifles kept in a safe with a trigger-lock. I come from a family that hunts (actually, I think my father will be at the hunt camp right now for a moose hunt - deer hunt isn't for another month). I do have an issue with handguns and any type of gun that can be considered assault or can be converted to assault.

[habernac]

no pistols? Come on, everyone needs one of these:

http://www.topglock.com/info/videog18.htm

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

How many people do you know that use a gun to put dinner ON the table on a regular basis.?

I would wager that 99.9% of the meat consumed in this country was not killed by the person who is actually eating it. When is the last time you went out and shot something and brought it home and ate it? If you can actually remember doing such a thing, what percentage of your diet did that carcass represent?

But whatever. I've got nothing against hunting, per se, but it isn't a valid reason for everyone to own a firearm. If you are a hunter and you need a gun to hunt your food then fine. If you are a regular jackass on the street, there is no reason for you to own a handgun or assault rifle.

It seems so strange to me that people would argue that more guns = safer place to live. If that was the case, wouldn't the US be safer than, say, Sweden?

Well I grew up with venison and moose meat and partridge to answer your first condescending question.

To answer your second you would have to look at Switzerland and Israel with a higher % of gun ownership there and then repeat your Anti-US style anti-gun argument.

Viel Gluck

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

While I sympathize with the sentiment, I don't agree with it.

I personally believe have guns around for self defense leads to more accidental shootings, and criminals more willing to shoot.

I don't have a problem with rifles kept in a safe with a trigger-lock. I come from a family that hunts (actually, I think my father will be at the hunt camp right now for a moose hunt - deer hunt isn't for another month). I do have an issue with handguns and any type of gun that can be considered assault or can be converted to assault.

Why?