Brexit- Update: Britain has voted to leave the EU

[redforever]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Disagree. Fox News is to the right as The Daily Show is to the left. It is an entertainment channel with an edict to twist and attack. At least The Daily Show is honest about the fact that they're a comedy show. There is no full network equivalent to Fox News on the left. CNN may be left leaning in its coverage but it isn't on the same galaxy of dishonesty as Fox News is.

CNN is just as dishonest in that they simply omit covering some news.

For instance, the incident in Afghanistan where an American fighter jet bombed and killed some Canadian forces on the ground.

Yes, when it came doown to the trial of the American pilots, CNN provided coverage, but the original incident was basically omitted.

I was talking about this with some American friends and they basically told me they did not think the incident happened and would check for themselves. They did confirm with me after, that yes, they had found info about the initial bombing, that it did happen, but had basically received no coverage.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by redforever

CNN is just as dishonest in that they simply omit covering some news.

For instance, the incident in Afghanistan where an American fighter jet bombed and killed some Canadian forces on the ground.

Yes, when it came doown to the trial of the American pilots, CNN provided coverage, but the original incident was basically omitted.

I was talking about this with some American friends and they basically told me they did not think the incident happened and would check for themselves. They did confirm with me after, that yes, they had found info about the initial bombing, that it did happen, but had basically received no coverage.

CNN definitely selects coverage based on ratings but I find it really funny when anyone considers them left or right bias.

CNN will go the extra effort to show they are neutral on subjects, where they clearly shouldn't be. It actually gets really embarrassing how far they go, which turns their news sometimes into a sham.

[Zarley]

There is no legitimate news media left in the United States. It's all garbage intended to entertain rather than inform and it's contributing to the increasing ignorance of the average American.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Zarley

There is no legitimate news media left in the United States. It's all garbage intended to entertain rather than inform and it's contributing to the increasing ignorance of the average American.

This is soooooooooooooo true.

My husband and I were vacationing in SF when President Obama and his wife Michelle had their first visit with the Queen.

My God...and CNN was the worst, all the news had to report was what Michelle wore...and my God, she wore a sleeveless top...and my God, she touched the Queen and it went on and on and on...for basically a week.

Americans might like to say they split with the concept of royalty but they react to Hollywood stars no differently than some react when the royals visit.

[Thor]

PBS newshour is still great, but yeah its pretty much the most depressing time for news not just in the US but all over the world.

[peter12]

70% of Leave voters are classified as skilled labour. For rube et al. "ignorant" means "those without a university degree." Skilled labour is cognitively-demanding, and actually productive. These people voted for reasons other than blind stupidity.

The arrogance continues to astound me.

[Thor]

Its the same frustration people are feeling all over the world, seeing good paying jobs dissapear, uncertainty, shrinking middle class, growing frustrations with the elite and establishment.

But to deny that the leave campaign didn't focus on the fear of immigration, nationalism, using dishonest tactics is astounding to me.

This vote was a perfect storm in a time in Europe where the right nationalists are gaining momentum, the Syrian refugee crisis, the economic instability, and of course people are just fed up with our politicians and how things have been for the last few decades. Young people are less likely to understand how much worse off the middle class is today, and see EU as the solution to a better future.

I don't hate the EU, Iceland has no place joining it for many good reasons, but we are part of the economic zone which has had many great benefits for us. I think the EU has to succeed for long term stability and peace in Europe so my issue is with the UK leaving has more to do with I'd rather them stay and try to make it better than give up entirely.

[peter12]

It's more about having political control over immigration rather than direct xenophobia. Don't forget that the Remain side used oikophobia tactics (fear and distrust of your own) as a potent weapon throughout the campaign.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Zarley

There is no legitimate news media left in the United States. It's all garbage intended to entertain rather than inform and it's contributing to the increasing ignorance of the average American.

PBS is still great.

[FlamesAddiction]

Back in 1980s, most major American news outlets became more about entertainment than news. CNN kind of kicked it off with the whole; "War in the Gulf" fervor with Bush Sr. It has been downhill ever since.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Zarley

There is no legitimate news media left in the United States. It's all garbage intended to entertain rather than inform and it's contributing to the increasing ignorance of the average American.

Chicken or egg? Maybe the average American has no interest in becoming informed. Look at the most popular hits on current events websites. Celebrity scandals. Shaggy dog stories. Bizarre crimes. Sex. It's not the restaurant's fault if they lay out a buffet and everyone stampedes to the Salisbury steak in gravy.

It's a free market. If there was a unmet appetite out there for the serious news and thorough journalism, you would think someone could make a lot of money by providing it. There are still some serious news outlets out there. The New York Times. PBS news hour. The Economist. They're not exactly setting the world on fire with their audience numbers. The truth is that the market for that kind of sober, high-brow news is vanishingly small.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's more about having political control over immigration rather than direct xenophobia. Don't forget that the Remain side used oikophobia tactics (fear and distrust of your own) as a potent weapon throughout the campaign.

The dishonesty was however quite bold on the leave side.

But yeah not just in the UK, but all over EU states people are wanting more control over immigration, again I think this is best solved as a member state to change policies within the union, I think there will be some traction now that there is a rise on the right wing nationalist side in many major EU member states and the EU council will have to combat that with taking steps to toughen up immigration laws, and of course the refugee crisis.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Chicken or egg? Maybe the average American has no interest in becoming informed. Look at the most popular hits on current events websites. Celebrity scandals. Shaggy dog stories. Bizarre crimes. Sex. It's not the restaurant's fault if they lay out a buffet and everyone stampedes to the Salisbury steak in gravy.

It's a free market. If there was a unmet appetite out there for the serious news and thorough journalism, you would think someone could make a lot of money by providing it. There are still some serious news outlets out there. The New York Times. PBS news hour. The Economist. They're not exactly setting the world on fire with their audience numbers. The truth is that the market for that kind of sober, high-brow news is vanishingly small.

All great sources of news, also subscribed to by the "older and educated" crowd.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Chicken or egg? Maybe the average American has no interest in becoming informed. Look at the most popular hits on current events websites. Celebrity scandals. Shaggy dog stories. Bizarre crimes. Sex. It's not the restaurant's fault if they lay out a buffet and everyone stampedes to the Salisbury steak in gravy.

It's a free market. If there was a unmet appetite out there for the serious news and thorough journalism, you would think someone could make a lot of money by providing it. There are still some serious news outlets out there. The New York Times. PBS news hour. The Economist. They're not exactly setting the world on fire with their audience numbers. The truth is that the market for that kind of sober, high-brow news is vanishingly small.

It's certainly an interesting question. People the US and even in the UK are significantly less educated than Canadians on average. I think this is reflected in respective media landscapes.

[peter12]

Canada is certainly the outlier in this whole thing, but it`s not like we haven`t had our own issues with secessionists.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Zarley

It's certainly an interesting question. People the US and even in the UK are significantly less educated than Canadians on average. I think this is reflected in respective media landscapes.

The UK is interesting in that they have a remarkably competitive newspaper field, but that competition hasn't elevated the tone of dialog. Quite the reverse. It just means that every paper needs to identify its tribe and feed that tribe whatever makes it happy. So even a paper with high ideals, like the Guardian, needs to feed its readers ideological tripe to keep the tribe loyal.

[peter12]

I tend to forgo outlets in favour of individual journalists - a small group of which I follow quite closely. The intellectual journals on the American right are still capable of some extremely high quality output.

Clearly, the consumption of high quality media has something to do with a citizenry's self-imposed duty to understand public affairs from a pre-informed perspective. Whether a citizenry exists, or whether the ideals exist to situate citizen's views vis-a-vis their own governance is a more important question when trying to figure out why news media is so wretchedly awful these days.

What I find most concerning is how seriously people take satirical news shows like John Oliver and Jon Stewart. It speaks to the smug attitudes gradually overwhelming the class of people who consider themselves on the "right side of things."

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by peter12

Canada is certainly the outlier in this whole thing, but it`s not like we haven`t had our own issues with secessionists.

The working class in Canada has been more fortunate than their counterparts in the U.S. and UK. The energy industry and the trades have kept them in good jobs for the most part, and our immigrants tend to be more educated, and so not competing with the native-born for work in those fields. Our public education system is also healthier.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The working class in Canada has been more fortunate than their counterparts in the U.S. and UK. The energy industry and the trades have kept them in good jobs for the most part, and our immigrants tend to be more educated, and so not competing with the native-born for work in those fields. Our public education system is also healthier.

We are also a bit more ethnically homogenous, which like it or not, tends to reduce intra-group tension.

You are right regarding the energy sector. It is the last thing maintaining a decent middle-class in this country. That is slowly being subsumed by bad politics, and the real estate sector. I really fear that our future will come a bit more abruptly then we would like to imagine.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by peter12

We are also a bit more ethnically homogenous, which like it or not, tends to reduce intra-group tension.

I don't know about that. Canada has far more non-whites and people who speak english as a second language than the UK, and we're about on par with the U.S. We really are better at integration, but again that mostly comes down to choosing the right immigrants.