Alberta Politics Thread

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Locke

I see what you're saying and this is where we disagree, you're thinking like a Poli-Sci guy who would pick this strategy if you had a vested interest in the part being re-elected, I'm thinking more like an economist and citizen being directly affected.

They did exactly what you said and why and it negatively affected their constituents, you know, the rubes that voted them in in the first place. The people that they're supposed to prioritize.

Its not supposed to be; 'whats best for the NDP' its supposed to be 'whats best for Albertans.'

They seem to have forgotten that. So in hopes (slim at that) of future re-election they shoehorned a ton of bad economic policy in at the worst possible time with no regard for Albertans just so they could placate their support, and, as you pointed out, hope it all blows over come election time.

So I see elected officials playing games when people's livelihoods are on the line and know that I'd vote for a Roomba with a knife taped to it coming to murder me in my sleep before I'd ever vote for this merry band of idiots.

It's more cynicism than poli-sci. If you think there's any political party that puts the interests of its constituents ahead of its own ambitions or need to survive/concentrate power, well then I have a lovely bridge to sell you. Hell, the election only happened in the first place because the PCs did just that.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by rubecube

It's more cynicism than poli-sci. If you think there's any political party that puts the interests of its constituents ahead of its own ambitions or survival, well then I have a lovely bridge to sell you. Hell, the election only happened in the first place because the PCs did just that.

True enough, but they also lost it for the exact same reason.

It would be nice if a political party just did a good job for a while but then again my inventory of Bridge Deeds is getting rather lofty.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Again though, why would tepid NDP supporters move to support Kenney? He doesn't represent their interests at all. The protest vote could definitely move back that way, but I don't see the progressive vote going there. The only way I could see that happening is if a merger fails and the WRP looks like a legitimate threat to win the election a la what happened in 2012. The more likely outcomes if Kenney wins the leadership is that the progressives stay with the NDP or just don't vote at all. Obviously the latter would be just fine with the PCs.

you and I both don't know that and won't know that until we see some kind of polling result.

But at the end of the day there are fringe so called progressives that will shift their votes with their wallets. The soccer mom vote will shift if little johnny's mom or dad is tossed out of work because of this government.

That's where the shift in play is going to be.

Right now the core group of NDP supporters are the unions and their workers because they're riding the gravy train, but outside of that I think that the rest of the voters will be pretty fluid.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Locke

True enough, but they also lost it for the exact same reason.

It would be nice if a political party just did a good job for a while but then again my inventory of Bridge Deeds is getting rather lofty.

Well but you even had the WRP doing their own version during campaign by promising not to raise any taxes and to do a massive layoff of government workers. Not addressing the revenue situation, and adding thousands more to the unemployment ranks while cutting public services at a time when more people are likely to be accessing them is pretty bad policy, but it plays well with fiscal conservatives.

The irony in all of this of course is that the NDP used to be the party that was designed to represent the interest of its membership and constituents at the cost of ever forming government, and that model has largely fallen by the wayside. With the way in which the party system has evolved in Canada over the last 50-60 years, we're definitely getting more career politicians than principled policymakers and bureaucrats.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

you and I both don't know that and won't know that until we see some kind of polling result.

But at the end of the day there are fringe so called progressives that will shift their votes with their wallets. The soccer mom vote will shift if little johnny's mom or dad is tossed out of work because of this government.

That's where the shift in play is going to be.

Right now the core group of NDP supporters are the unions and their workers because they're riding the gravy train, but outside of that I think that the rest of the voters will be pretty fluid.

Well I kind of thought the way I stated it indicated it was more of a prediction on my part than something I considered to be factual. I've pretty much stated that I think the NDP's fate is likely tied to the economy, but I think you're underestimating just how much the left and centre-left dislike Kenney, especially those that follow politics. I'm also skeptical that he'll be able to merge the PCs and WR. Why would Jean step down and why would the WR merge if they continue to lead the PCs by a fair margin after the leadership is decided? There are going to be a tonne of egos involved on both sides.

[Fuzz]

Its amazing how obvious it is that a political party could walk in and take Alberta for the next 20 years. They have to be not WRP crazy, not have PC baggage, and not be NDP crazy. They would get elected in a landslide. They have a few years to get organized, raise funds etc. Hardly anyone in Alberta is actually loyal to a party at this point, so there is a huge opportunity here. I just don't know what the smart politicians are waiting for.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Its amazing how obvious it is that a political party could walk in and take Alberta for the next 20 years. They have to be not WRP crazy, not have PC baggage, and not be NDP crazy. They would get elected in a landslide. They have a few years to get organized, raise funds etc. Hardly anyone in Alberta is actually loyal to a party at this point, so there is a huge opportunity here. I just don't know what the smart politicians are waiting for.

You have to find them first

[Fuzz]

I swear they exist. I read about one once.

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I swear they exist. I read about one once.

Fiction

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I swear they exist. I read about one once.

Fine, I'll run.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Fiction

Oh right, maybe that was a Song of Ice and Fire.

Originally Posted by Locke

Fine, I'll run.

You sure about that? Might want to wait for the ending...

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Oh right, maybe that was a Song of Ice and Fire.

You sure about that? Might want to wait for the ending...

Why? Its the game of Albertan Politics, you either win or your Government Pension, Golden Parachute and astute acceptance of bribes take sweet, sweet care of you for the rest of your life.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Locke

Why? Its the game of Albertan Politics, you either win or your Government Pension, Golden Parachute and astute acceptance of bribes take sweet, sweet care of you for the rest of your life.

Don't you need at least two terms for that?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Locke

Why? Its the game of Albertan Politics, you either win or your Government Pension, Golden Parachute and astute acceptance of bribes take sweet, sweet care of you for the rest of your life.

It's not like that anymore. There is no real pension aside from some RRSP contributions and you get no real golden parachute either. Its a payment that might be close to a severance package now. The bribes I have no idea about, but years ago there were some pretty sweet Multicorp shares floating around!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Don't you need at least two terms for that?

Only if you operate at standard Government levels of efficiency! I'd bring private sector efficiency to the role and really get the cash rolling in.

"You'll pay me $1M to dump all of your toxic waste into Sylvan Lake? Can I get that in a non-descript duffel bag and USD? I can? Give 'er hell then. No one uses that lake anyways, or so I'm led to believe."

Getting things done!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Slava

It's not like that anymore. There is no real pension aside from some RRSP contributions and you get no real golden parachute either. Its a payment that might be close to a severance package now. The bribes I have no idea about, but years ago there were some pretty sweet Multicorp shares floating around!

Its all about creativity.

"Ladies and gentlemen, I've solved the healthcare crisis in Alberta and the public service pension crisis all at the same time. Have you ever heard of Kaiser Permanente?"

- Hey...is his suit made of money?

"No. Maybe. Yes."

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I actually think politically they were better off doing it now than holding off until a recovery. If they'd waited until a recovery to implement their ideas they run the risk of slowing the recovery and pissing off the electorate right before the election. This way they get it out of the way and hope the economy recovers enough over the next 2.5 years that voters end up forgetting their first year in charge.

That presumes Notley is going to do all of her insane things in year one then moderate for the rest of her term. Given she represents a party that was largely built on insanity, even before the Leap manifesto, I wouldn't be so confident of that.

And Leap is a big problem for Notley. Even if the Alberta wing were to split, they would have the same baggage the provincial Liberals do - the name alone ties them to the federal party.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That presumes Notley is going to do all of her insane things in year one then moderate for the rest of her term. Given she represents a party that was largely built on insanity, even before the Leap manifesto, I wouldn't be so confident of that.

This is silly. The origins of the NDP/CCF and their role in getting Canadians access to many of the the social programs we take for granted today are hardly insane. I suppose universal health care, labour rights, etc., would have seemed radical at the time but in hindsight they seem to have worked out relatively well for the majority of Canadians.

And Leap is a big problem for Notley. Even if the Alberta wing were to split, they would have the same baggage the provincial Liberals do - the name alone ties them to the federal party.

I wouldn't be shocked if they changed their name were they to split from the federal part, but it is absolutely a problem for them.

[Resolute 14]

There's no doubt the CCF/NDP have done some good things. But they are still the far left equivalent of Wild Rose to the right.

Also, given Jason Kenney just praised the UK for the Brexit vote on Twitter, I take back what I said before. I'd rather have Jean's fumbling than him.

[Fuzz]

Why would he say that? What benefit would that tweet possibly have? What a moran.