What happens when we die?

[CaptainCrunch]

Well that's it, someone's going to have to answer these questions, you know, die and come back to life.

I'll need a gopro and a gun in case there is a hell and I need to shoot my way out.

[Huntingwhale]

I go to Mount Olympus to be with my father Zeus

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Are you being poetic or are you relaying facts as you see them? Was your post to be taken literally? Like, when I die, that means something instantly becomes alive and my consciousness goes into that thing? What is consciousness? Are you making things up, or did you read this in a book somewhere?

This thread is crazy.

It is crazy-ish. Lots of interesting gems in here.

As I have said before, I am really, really astounded as to how certain many atheists are as to the most important questions asked by human beings throughout history.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by peter12

It is crazy-ish. Lots of interesting gems in here.

As I have said before, I am really, really astounded as to how certain many atheists are as to the most important questions asked by human beings throughout history.

It's equally astounding as to how easily the importance of particular questions is placed based on theism. Their importance is subjective, they could easily be argued as irrelevant.

[WesternCanadaKing]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Are you being poetic or are you relaying facts as you see them? Was your post to be taken literally? Like, when I die, that means something instantly becomes alive and my consciousness goes into that thing? What is consciousness? Are you making things up, or did you read this in a book somewhere?

This thread is crazy.

It is definitely not fact, its more of a point of view. When you die, your consciousness stops and that's all we can really say about it for sure. But if your consciousness is no longer being experienced, that doesn't mean that reality stops. Something else, somewhere else will be spontaneously coming into existence just like you did in this life, and it will require a consciousness. Suddenly, there's a whole new "you", of absolutely no connection to the old you except that it fills the void of your old consciousness. Where exactly consciousness itself comes from is also a mystery, but we can objectively say that it does happen. I think the implications of that are beyond our ability to understand.

[Mr.Coffee]

The last two posts between peter12 and pepsifree perfectly illustrate why my answer on page 1 is one of the best ones, even though it was mostly a terrible joke. I'm mostly right, that is what happens when you die based on what we know. And can know.

You guys both argue that it's confusing for theists or atheists to make predictions about what happens when a person dies.

The truth of the matter is that nobody knows, nobody will ever know and therefore it's anyone's guess. So, why bother worrying about it?

It's an unanswerable question. Stop worrying and go live your life.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It's equally astounding as to how easily the importance of particular questions is placed based on theism. Their importance is subjective, they could easily be argued as irrelevant.

Except I make no predictions. I merely posed the thought that religious people accept the contingency of human life in a far more comprehensive way than atheists do.

And Mr. Coffee is right. It is not either/or.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

The last two posts between peter12 and pepsifree perfectly illustrate why my answer on page 1 is one of the best ones, even though it was mostly a terrible joke. I'm mostly right, that is what happens when you die based on what we know. And can know.

You guys both argue that it's confusing for theists or atheists to make predictions about what happens when a person dies.

The truth of the matter is that nobody knows, nobody will ever know and therefore it's anyone's guess. So, why bother worrying about it?

It's an unanswerable question. Stop worrying and go live your life.

Except as Christianity makes clear - your life has moral weight to it. Finding out the right course of action is an epic drama in and of itself. There is nothing worse to the person who openly lies to himself by saying that the whole thing doesn't matter, and that we should all stop worrying about, and buy a better sound system.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by troutman

PIPPIN: I didn't think it would end this way.

GANDALF: End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it.

PIPPIN: What? Gandalf? See what?

GANDALF: White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise.

PIPPIN: Well, that isn't so bad.

GANDALF: No. No, it isn't.

Do many people know that Tolkien was a devout Christian? He converted C.S. Lewis.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by peter12

Except I make no predictions. I merely posed the thought that religious people accept the contingency of human life in a far more comprehensive way than atheists do.

And Mr. Coffee is right. It is not either/or.

And I never suggested you make any predictions, I'm suggesting that the "important questions" and "moral weight" you're giving life is completely theistic in nature and NOT universal.

What theists find important is, surprisingly, rarely actually universally important.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by WesternCanadaKing

It is definitely not fact, its more of a point of view. When you die, your consciousness stops and that's all we can really say about it for sure. But if your consciousness is no longer being experienced, that doesn't mean that reality stops. Something else, somewhere else will be spontaneously coming into existence just like you did in this life, and it will require a consciousness. Suddenly, there's a whole new "you", of absolutely no connection to the old you except that it fills the void of your old consciousness. Where did this consciousness come from? That's a whole other question.

To be clear, you're just making this up, right? How would you expect me to interpret that? Of all the possibilities of how the world, the universe, life, death, etc. works, you seriously think you may have just lucked into an answer with your musings? I don't get this. Like, what value does your baseless wild guess have? What's wrong with saying 'I don't know'?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by peter12

Except as Christianity makes clear - your life has moral weight to it. Finding out the right course of action is an epic drama in and of itself. There is nothing worse to the person who openly lies to himself by saying that the whole thing doesn't matter, and that we should all stop worrying about, and buy a better sound system.

Can you call it an "open lie to himself" if it's what they truly believe? Seeing as we don't know the answer to the question, coming up with our own answer and living by that is just as much of an option as anything else, isn't it? Is it anymore of an open lie to oneself than the idea that being good during your life on Earth grants you access to a heavenly kingdom of righteousness?

I would also say that you can hold that your life carries moral weight without the necessity of an afterlife to strive for (for lack of a better term). I could think that our lives are all completely meaningless from the standpoint of "we have 80-90 years hear and that's it", and still be of the opinion that my life has a moral weight in the way that I would still like to see a moral progression of humanity overall and I contribute to that during my life by being a good human and treating others with respect.

Originally Posted by Sliver

To be clear, you're just making this up, right? How would you expect me to interpret that? Of all the possibilities of how the world, the universe, life, death, etc. works, you seriously think you may have just lucked into an answer with your musings? I don't get this. Like, what value does your baseless wild guess have? What's wrong with saying 'I don't know'?

Not to answer for WCK, but isn't everything said in this thread 'made up'? I don't think there's anything wrong with saying "I think this..." than there is with saying "I don't know". There is only something wrong with saying "I know..." or "you're wrong" about anything to do with afterlife outside of the realm what science can currently answer definitively.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And I never suggested you make any predictions, I'm suggesting that the "important questions" and "moral weight" you're giving life is completely theistic in nature and NOT universal.

What theists find important is, surprisingly, rarely actually universally important.

Such as? I think general existential questions of right and wrong have particular salient important to every individual.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Can you call it an "open lie to himself" if it's what they truly believe? Seeing as we don't know the answer to the question, coming up with our own answer and living by that is just as much of an option as anything else, isn't it? Is it anymore of an open lie to oneself than the idea that being good during your life on Earth grants you access to a heavenly kingdom of righteousness?

I would also say that you can hold that your life carries moral weight without the necessity of an afterlife to strive for (for lack of a better term). I could think that our lives are all completely meaningless from the standpoint of "we have 80-90 years hear and that's it", and still be of the opinion that my life has a moral weight in the way that I would still like to see a moral progression of humanity overall and I contribute to that during my life by being a good human and treating others with respect.

See, I don't think they really do believe that it is all for nothing. And if they do, then they are far more helpless then they pretend.

As Solzhenitsyn put it, beneath all of our glad-hand, happy consumerism, therapeutic talk, is the howl of existentialism.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by peter12

See, I don't think they really do believe that it is all for nothing. And if they do, then they are far more helpless then they pretend.

As Solzhenitsyn put it, beneath all of our glad-hand, happy consumerism, therapeutic talk, is the howl of existentialism.

I think maybe we're talking about different things. Where an "all for nothing" stance I think is incorrect, as you have an impact on the people around you during your life, whether that's positive or negative. But to think that your life has importance doesn't necessitate a belief in life beyond the human body.

[peter12]

No, it definitely doesn't.

[WesternCanadaKing]

Originally Posted by Sliver

To be clear, you're just making this up, right? How would you expect me to interpret that? Of all the possibilities of how the world, the universe, life, death, etc. works, you seriously think you may have just lucked into an answer with your musings? I don't get this. Like, what value does your baseless wild guess have? What's wrong with saying 'I don't know'?

Yes, I am making it up. Its not an answer, its just a way of looking at things.

I'm not saying "I don't know", I'm saying "I don't know, but its something".

I don't really understand the hostility here, its a thread about death, what else is there but personal musings

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by peter12

Such as? I think general existential questions of right and wrong have particular salient important to every individual.

What happens when we die.
What exists outside the body experience.
Do we have a soul.

These aren't important questions. They're barely relevant questions to your time on earth. They are fun and good for a conversation but by no means are they important or even that captivating. They seem that way because the answer is either "No" or "Maybe" and maybe is incredibly boundless.

Right and wrong aren't even important questions. They're dictated by society. They're learned concepts. Outside or any society mandated punishments, do you think there is any relevant consequence for living life in a way that someone might subjectively believe to be wrong?

I can tell you, there isn't.

[Coach]

Yeah, so in that context, I would agree that don't think anyone can truly believe that their life means nothing. Even if you are a person who has lost everything (family, friends, money, etc...) you can still continue to have an impact (and a positive one) if you choose to do so.

But I don't really see what any religion has to do with that thought process, unless it is through religion that you find a community which to affect and/or through religion that you find your moral guide. And could certainly be the case for plenty of people (the majority of people even). But that doesn't exclude those without religion from finding those things.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Right and wrong aren't even important questions. They're dictated by society. They're learned concepts. Outside or any society mandated punishments, do you think there is any relevant consequence for living life in a way that someone might subjectively believe to be wrong?

I can tell you, there isn't.

I kind of agree with most of what you said, except for the last sentence. Yes we have punishments in place for those that do what our society has deemed wrong (and that has changed drastically throughout time). But there are also consequences outside of those. If you kill someone you take away a life that could have impacted humanity, you have put in motion a change in a large group of people who are now affected by that death, and their lives change as a result, etc..

[peter12]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

What happens when we die.
What exists outside the body experience.
Do we have a soul.

These aren't important questions. They're barely relevant questions to your time on earth. They are fun and good for a conversation but by no means are they important or even that captivating. They seem that way because the answer is either "No" or "Maybe" and maybe is incredibly boundless.

Right and wrong aren't even important questions. They're dictated by society. They're learned concepts. Outside or any society mandated punishments, do you think there is any relevant consequence for living life in a way that someone might subjectively believe to be wrong?

I can tell you, there isn't.

Come now, based upon your previous posts on this board, I know that you really don't believe what you just said.