Canada Post likely will be locked out/on strike - July 2

[calgarygeologist]

I think this has quietly been in the news for a couple months but Canada Post and their workers have not been able to reach an agreement on a new contract and mail delivery service will likely be suspended as of July 2. This is something to consider if you are going to be doing any online shopping which might include delivery via Canada Post.

[Slava]

what are the sticking points to a new deal?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Slava

what are the sticking points to a new deal?

I haven't looked at the specifics but something to do with their retirement plan, job security after 10 years vs 5 years, a pay cut I think. I have also heard they are trying to reduce the amount of time off that is being provided and take away free lunch or lunch allowance or something.

[Canehdianman]

Seems like a great opportunity to lay 1/2 of them off and get community boxes installed across Canada.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Canehdianman

Seems like a great opportunity to lay 1/2 of them off and get community boxes installed across Canada.

Or just shut down the corporation and give a Government contract to the best bidder (FedEx, Purolator, UPS.) I think it has been a money pit for years.

[Jacks]

Last work stoppage surely cost them a ton of business, this one will likely do the same. As soon as the mail stops people start signing up for online options, those people never come back.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Or just shut down the corporation and give a Government contract to the best bidder (FedEx, Purolator, UPS.) I think it has been a money pit for years.

You'd think that, but you're wrong. Unless something has changed since last year.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...et-walkom.html

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

You'd think that, but you're wrong. Unless something has changed since last year.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...et-walkom.html

From that article.

And yet the crown corporation has just announced that its operating profit for 2014 was a handsome $299 million. What happened?

The previous 3 years the losses totaled 425 million dollars.

After a major reduction in payroll of some 6000 jobs and a major increase in the cost of stamps...then yes the operation showed a profit.

Snail mail is a thing of the past regardless of what the extremely biased Toronto star wants to claim.

Where Canada Post can survive is on parcel delivery but that just means a government agency is, not unlike the CBC, competing against private corporations which is asinine. It is very much a "no longer needed service" like the CBC that at one time was an absolutely necessary one.

CP is also trying to get back into the banking business. Even though there is also plenty of private groups that can handle that just fine, the union wants to get into a business that would be underwritten by taxpayers in an enviroment where even the leanest of those in the industry are losing profits at rates last seen during the 08 recession.

I think the government should take this opportunity to lock em out and never ever let them back. Allow the private sector to provide the jobs that will be created with the dissolution of Canada Post and the whole new level of business provided to that industry.

However, since it's the Liberals in charge it's much more likely they will throw a bunch of money at them,embolden the union some more, and hope to actually make them bigger once again and all at taxpayers cost.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Or just shut down the corporation and give a Government contract to the best bidder (FedEx, Purolator, UPS.) I think it has been a money pit for years.

Canada post owns purolator, they will essentially move as much of their business to them as possible. Canada post is actually doing very well, they have restructured and now mainly deliver parcel shipments. They most certainly aren't losing any money.

https://www.thestar.com/business/201...nion-says.html

For those who don't know how the process/laws of collective bargaining work, in a nutshell both sides meet for negotiations, exchange proposals/amendments, go back and fourth trying to reach an agreement, when either side declares an impass, mediation begins with a government approved mediator, if mediation fails, there is a 2 week cooling off period before either side can choose to have a strike or lockout vote, if either vote is held whichever side(usually both) must wait 3 days before striking or locking out their employees.

In this case with Canada post, it appears as though Canada post is attempting to fast track a lock out. This is a commonly used tactic by companies when negotiating during a poor economy where jobs are scarce. Basically they will use purolator as leverage, tell the postal employees that they will move all their parcels through them and leave their employees locked out until they accept whatever garbage they are offering, knowing the employees will be afraid since they won't find as high paying jobs to work at while on strike.

This is a big reason why you see so many major corporations buying out their competition, it provides a lot of flexibility for contract negotiation to have different ways of reaching your customers while taking bargaining power away from the workers. If they do end up in a work dispute hopefully people will support the workers, at the end of the day what happens to one group of workers has a ripple affect on all other workers, union or non-union

[Locke]

If Postal Workers strike that will be a huge mistake.

They're fortunate right now that they've got a Federal Government that is very Union friendly, but that isnt going to mean squat if they draw this into a strike. People will go to other options and the whole operation is no longer viable.

I'm opposed to the concept of crushing organized labour, but a lot of the Unionized work in this Country, especially Government unionized work, are operating within an environment that only continue to exist because its being artificially supported and subsidized by taxpayers.

Pension benefits? Job security? Higher wages? Health benefits?

What makes Postal workers feel entitled to all of these?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by transplant99

From that article.



The previous 3 years the losses totaled 425 million dollars.

After a major reduction in payroll of some 6000 jobs and a major increase in the cost of stamps...then yes the operation showed a profit.

Snail mail is a thing of the past regardless of what the extremely biased Toronto star wants to claim.

Where Canada Post can survive is on parcel delivery but that just means a government agency is, not unlike the CBC, competing against private corporations which is asinine. It is very much a "no longer needed service" like the CBC that at one time was an absolutely necessary one.

CP is also trying to get back into the banking business. Even though there is also plenty of private groups that can handle that just fine, the union wants to get into a business that would be underwritten by taxpayers in an enviroment where even the leanest of those in the industry are losing profits at rates last seen during the 08 recession.

I think the government should take this opportunity to lock em out and never ever let them back. Allow the private sector to provide the jobs that will be created with the dissolution of Canada Post and the whole new level of business provided to that industry.

However, since it's the Liberals in charge it's much more likely they will throw a bunch of money at them,embolden the union some more, and hope to actually make them bigger once again and all at taxpayers cost.

Is it though? I know that I order a fair amount online and obviously that is a growing segment in general. It seems like the costs/wages/benefits are what appear to be the concern here? I don't know that, and am just taking a stab though.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Locke

What makes Postal workers feel entitled to all of these?

Hey man, they work really hard.

[Regular_John]

But then who's going to deliver those two competing community "news" letters I immediately place into the outgoing mail slot?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Slava

Is it though? I know that I order a fair amount online and obviously that is a growing segment in general. It seems like the costs/wages/benefits are what appear to be the concern here? I don't know that, and am just taking a stab though.

You may be right but even then if there is a demand for it someone will fill it if there is a profit to be made from it.

I just think that at one point in time, Canada Post was an essential service. Now? Not so much.

[Sliver]

During the last strike my friend tweeted his concern over getting his beaver pelt ledgers to upper Canada. Haha loved that one.

[lazypucker]

What happens to delivery of ID's such as driver license and passport renewals? Does it mean that I can't drive or travel until the mail starts moving again?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I just think that at one point in time, Canada Post was an essential service. Now? Not so much.

People will still need parcels delivered, are they the only game in town? No, but it is always best to have competition in an industry. Think about how much a parcel shipment would cost if there was only one company doing it? There's a reason why in Canada we pay much more for domestic flights than most countries, 2 companies hold a monopoly and use it to gouge consumers. And they typically do not share those extra costs with their employees. People blame this poor economy on things like oil, which is a big factor, but they rarely see how big corporations are continuously reducing the amount of money going to the middle class, who are the true driving force to an economy.

This isn't about the union wanting a strike, unions don't want strikes, they are a last resort, this about a big company wanting to make bigger profits at the expense of their employees who at that the end of the day make their money. I wonder if they ever stop to think about the impact of reducing their employee's earnings and how it actually bites them in the ass when they can't afford to even use their service.

Here's a good example of how short sighted some views are on the impact of reducing costs in the name of making bigger profits.

If you've been in a macdonalds recently you've no doubt seen the new screens they use to take your order. Now those 4 screens in the restaurant eliminate 4 jobs in the store, sure that employee probably only made at best $30k a year, but here's where it creates it's impact, that employee can no longer go spend that $30k which has a ripple effect on every business that relies on that customers business. Most people will say, oh but it's not that much money, well if you consider that there are probably 100 macdonalds locations in the province, 4 $30k/year jobs lost at each locations, that would take around $12M out of our provincial economy. Meanwhile your Big Mac hadn't dropped in price, so those cost savings are just going in rotten ronny's pocket.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by transplant99

You may be right but even then if there is a demand for it someone will fill it if there is a profit to be made from it.

I just think that at one point in time, Canada Post was an essential service. Now? Not so much.

Oh its not essential but I just think it's interesting how there should be an increased demand for parcels in particular and yet CP has failed to capitalize on that. This is why I think it has to do with costs like pensions/wages/benefits as opposed to actual issues with demand.

[Northendzone]

I think the major question that needs to be answered is how will we continue to receive valuable coupons in the mail. Without mail service I won't know which liquor store has the cheapest bottle of scotch, nor will I know about the latest real estate team working in my neighborhood. And who will compensate me for the extra cost of not having the latest coupon for pap johns or pizza 73.

You hate to see good paying jobs leaving the economy, but to me the post office is becoming a dinosaur. Although I will concede that the post office may be very important for smaller and isolated communities

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Slava

Oh its not essential but I just think it's interesting how there should be an increased demand for parcels in particular and yet CP has failed to capitalize on that. This is why I think it has to do with costs like pensions/wages/benefits as opposed to actual issues with demand.

I really think it has nothing to do with any demands or costs at all, in a tough economy most unions have the sense to not go asking for huge increases, I truly believe that this is all boiling down to Canada post wanting to use the recession as a means to increase their profits at the expense of the employees. In the article it mentions that they are asking for many concessions, if they are asking for a one or two year deal that would be a reasonable request but my guess is they are asking for 5 years or more, at which point the economy would be in a much better state, so why would they need those concessions. For all we know the union would be happy with minimal increases or even wage freezes for the first couple of years, anything they currently have should not have an impact currently otherwise we would have heard things about how Canada post would be planning closure rather than negotiatiing a new deal.