2 year old boy snatched by alligator at Disney World

[calf]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

What is it exactly that kidless people can't understand about parenting? I think if anything people without kids have more objective and unbiased opinions. There is a great deal of pride involved in parenting and I think the "don't tell me your opinion if you don't have kids" argument is quite often a defense again criticism. No one wants to get tips on being a parent. And if personal experience was a requirement for opinions we'd have very little to give opinions on. Also, we've all been kids and experienced parenting in some form. That makes us all aerospace engineers. I may not have built the same plane as you but I know a bit about it.

It's like writing. Criticism from other writers is fantastic. But there is nothing like a solid drubbing from the general reading public to completely rearrange your aesthetic.

It isnt that you cant have an opinion. It is that you dont have the experience to have any sort of empathy for a situation. That often means your opinion comes across as "it cant be that hard" when it is. Or, it lacks a recognition isn't an object that you "parent", it is a tiny human that you are raising into a functioning human, with its own brain and personality. And I say this as a previously kidless person who now has that new perspective.

The effects of teething, random temper tantrums, running off when you look at your phone for 3 seconds, picky eating, poop explosions, terrible sleep for months at a time...all affect parents in different ways, physically, emotionally, psychologically. And without true empathy, you can't really have an unbiased and objective opinion.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

What is it exactly that kidless people can't understand about parenting? I think if anything people without kids have more objective and unbiased opinions. There is a great deal of pride involved in parenting and I think the "don't tell me your opinion if you don't have kids" argument is quite often a defense again criticism. No one wants to get tips on being a parent. And if personal experience was a requirement for opinions we'd have very little to give opinions on. Also, we've all been kids and experienced parenting in some form. That makes us all aerospace engineers. I may not have built the same plane as you but I know a bit about it.

It's like writing. Criticism from other writers is fantastic. But there is nothing like a solid drubbing from the general reading public to completely rearrange your aesthetic.

Except in the context of this thread it's people criticizing the parents of the kid who was eaten. It's presumed here that the people criticizing the parents likely have no experience in child rearing, because of the inherent greater understanding of the randomness of a child's behaviour. Then we were treated to a guy saying one can have absolute control over a 2 year old, which is the epitome of ignorant.

It's like saying I know what being a teacher is like because I was in classrooms for many years. I know what it's like to be a student (be a kid) so I know what it's like to be a teacher (a parent). Well, you can say that, you can say whatever you want, but, you're wrong.

[OMG!WTF!]

I just don't buy that. Some people have stupid opinions. Some have good opinions. I don't need to be a parent to know that the woman I saw riding her bike down Elbow Drive at rush hour yesterday with two kids following behind her is an idiot. Any accident involving those kids would have been 100% her fault. It's the dogma of saying all opinions of a certain kind are invalid that strikes me as wrong.

I don't blame the gorilla kid's mom. I don't blame the alligator kid's dad. The last thing I'd be thinking of at Disney World is alligators.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

What is it exactly that kidless people can't understand about parenting?

The experience of what's it's like being responsible for an immature human being 24/7. The realization that they're autonomous and unpredictable and they're all different. The sheer fatigue of the whole endeavour.

I thought I had it all figured out before I became a parent. I knew what parents should do and what the shouldn't do. I knew exactly what I was going to do, and what would mean for my kids. You just have to use your head, right? Of course it was all nonsense. Parents have far, far less control over kids than I thought. They behave in ways you can't possibly anticipate, and they're not the pavlovian behaviour units that can be shaped with positive and negative reinforcement. And most importantly, knowing how you should do something and having the 24/7 discipline, consistency, and energy to do it are two entirely different things.

I'm sure we all know how we are supposed to be as spouses/partners, right? An unquestioning source of strength and support. Ready to be empathetic and compassionate whenever necessary. Attentive. Considerate. Flexible. But how many people are really like that in a relationship? Consistently? Precious few.

Parenting is like that. Only harder, because children aren't fully developed humans yet. Really, there's nothing in this world that is so different in theory and in practice than raising children. If you've never done it, you don't really have any credibility on the subject at all.

[calgaryblood]

It's silly to think that you have to have kids in order to know what it's like to be a good parent and how much work it actually is. There are so many terrible parents out there who don't do what's best for their kids and I'm supposed to believe they'd be better parents than me because I haven't had a child yet? I know for a fact I'd be a better parent than the dad who doesn't know how to control his kids and beats them to try and "teach them". Or a better dad than the workaholic who works 12 hours a day and sees his kid 2 hours a day and his kids see their nanny more than their father. You don't have to be a parent to understand how hard parenting is.

You don't just become some sort of super human when your sperm impregnates a woman.

[snootchiebootchies]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And most importantly, knowing how you should do something and having the 24/7 discipline, consistency, and energy to do it are two entirely different things.

I had my first child relatively late in life (early 40s) but prior to that, I thought I had a good grasp of parenting. Most of my opinions were based on how my parents were able to modify my behaviour through discipline and hey, I turned out so well, right? But what I was wrong about was the way I responded to that discipline is completely different to the way my daughter responds to that discipline. Moreover, what works with my daughter does not necessarily work for my son (we are still trying to find the most effective way of disciplining and engaging with him). What I now know about parenting is that most of it is about discovery.

I feel terrible for those parents. I hope that they get a nice fat settlement from Disney. No doubt they will relive that horror and guilt for the rest of their lives but at least the money will make their lives and the life of their remaining child easier.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

It's silly to think that you have to have kids in order to know what it's like to be a good parent and how much work it actually is. There are so many terrible parents out there who don't do what's best for their kids and I'm supposed to believe they'd be better parents than me because I haven't had a child yet? I know for a fact I'd be a better parent than the dad who doesn't know how to control his kids and beats them to try and "teach them". Or a better dad than the workaholic who works 12 hours a day and sees his kid 2 hours a day and his kids see their nanny more than their father. You don't have to be a parent to understand how hard parenting is.

You don't just become some sort of super human when your sperm impregnates a woman.

Nothing prepares you for having a kid. Isolated incidents of realizing you wouldn't beat your kid aren't relevant experience or knowledge. When my son was pretty young, maybe a month or two old, my wife and I half jokingly suggested we should throw him out the window, get a good night sleep and deal with the police in the morning. Nobody is suggesting parents are superhumans. In fact, I've discovered far more weaknesses in myself after I had a child than I knew before. And I don't think parents feel superior to non-parents; we just want you all to kindly shut up with your opinions and judgements and criticisms of individual events you may witness or hear about.

[metallicat]

Btw, just before I posted that my son somehow managed to get **** out of his diaper and smear it on his food tray and then on my face prior to feeding him lunch. I'll never he prepared for that.

[OMG!WTF!]

All the things people are saying about the difficulty of having kids is exactly why I decided not to have kids. I don't want to be awake for three years. I don't want to deal with unreason. And I don't want to risk losing something I really love. None of those experiences are prerequisite for understanding these situations. My experience as a drylander going to Florida would probably be the exact same as this guy's. I'd be watching my kid so he didn't drown. The last thing I'd expect is a gator.

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

It's silly to think that you have to have kids in order to know what it's like to be a good parent and how much work it actually is. There are so many terrible parents out there who don't do what's best for their kids and I'm supposed to believe they'd be better parents than me because I haven't had a child yet? I know for a fact I'd be a better parent than the dad who doesn't know how to control his kids and beats them to try and "teach them". Or a better dad than the workaholic who works 12 hours a day and sees his kid 2 hours a day and his kids see their nanny more than their father. You don't have to be a parent to understand how hard parenting is.

You don't just become some sort of super human when your sperm impregnates a woman.

No, but you don't understand the entire scope and responsibility until you are actually a parent. It's like an engineering student who walks onto a job site and realises he has no idea about the first thing about really building a bridge.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

There are so many terrible parents out there who don't do what's best for their kids and I'm supposed to believe they'd be better parents than me because I haven't had a child yet?

Nobody has said that. And nobody has said all parents are above criticism. The point parents here are trying to make is nobody really understands how hard it is to raise kids until you've done it. And that makes most of us more tolerant and sympathetic to other parents than we were before we had kids.

Louie CK describes it like this.

A woman at McDonalds is shouting at her kid and the kid is crying. People without kids think What is that mom doing to that poor kid? People with kids think What is that kid doing to that poor mom?

[JiriHrdina]

"It's silly to think that you have to have kids in order to know what it's like to be a good parent and how much work it actually is."

One of the most absurd things I've read on this site.
It is silly. Really silly. And arrogant.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

"It's silly to think that you have to have kids in order to know what it's like to be a good parent and how much work it actually is."

One of the most absurd things I've read on this site.
It is silly. Really silly. And arrogant.

Yup, I've never had kids but now have grandkids(stepson and daughter). Grandson was 1 1/2 and granddaughter was 3 when they stayed with us for six weeks last summer. My wife and I took a couple of weeks of work to spend some quality time with them...when they left I needed a holiday from my holiday, and I wasn't even the primary caregiver.

I literally had no clue what is involved in raising young kids. I came away with a whole new respect for parents.

[V]

Then again, you never fail to hear parents say "Well that was way easier than I expected coming in..." Oh wait, nevermind.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

It's silly to think that you have to have kids in order to know what it's like to be a good parent and how much work it actually is. There are so many terrible parents out there who don't do what's best for their kids and I'm supposed to believe they'd be better parents than me because I haven't had a child yet? I know for a fact I'd be a better parent than the dad who doesn't know how to control his kids and beats them to try and "teach them". Or a better dad than the workaholic who works 12 hours a day and sees his kid 2 hours a day and his kids see their nanny more than their father. You don't have to be a parent to understand how hard parenting is.

You don't just become some sort of super human when your sperm impregnates a woman.

Lol.

You think so, eh. You sound like a 13 year old that knows how to drive, because he rides shotgun in moms car, and knows better than to drive drunk or tired. If only the rest of humanity had the same innate knowledge and wisdom as you.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

It's silly to think that you have to have kids in order to know what it's like to be a good parent and how much work it actually is. There are so many terrible parents out there who don't do what's best for their kids and I'm supposed to believe they'd be better parents than me because I haven't had a child yet? I know for a fact I'd be a better parent than the dad who doesn't know how to control his kids and beats them to try and "teach them". Or a better dad than the workaholic who works 12 hours a day and sees his kid 2 hours a day and his kids see their nanny more than their father. You don't have to be a parent to understand how hard parenting is.

You don't just become some sort of super human when your sperm impregnates a woman.

please never change.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by V

Then again, you never fail to hear parents say "Well that was way easier than I expected coming in..." Oh wait, nevermind.

Parenting is the hardest physical and mental thing I have ever done, bar none.

That being said it is also the most rewarding. My two are 10 & 12, their personalities are coming out in full force.

Everyday I am amazed at how different their view of the world is from mine or the sibling or mother.

It makes for an enjoyable ride.

[V]

That's such a facebook mom post.

[Diemenz]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

It's silly to think that you have to have kids in order to know what it's like to be a good parent and how much work it actually is. There are so many terrible parents out there who don't do what's best for their kids and I'm supposed to believe they'd be better parents than me because I haven't had a child yet? I know for a fact I'd be a better parent than the dad who doesn't know how to control his kids and beats them to try and "teach them". Or a better dad than the workaholic who works 12 hours a day and sees his kid 2 hours a day and his kids see their nanny more than their father. You don't have to be a parent to understand how hard parenting is.

You don't just become some sort of super human when your sperm impregnates a woman.

[Minnie]

They fenced off the lagoon yesterday.

Photos shared on social media on Friday show a construction crew installing a fence on the beach at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort, where a 2-year-old boy was fatally attacked by an alligator on Tuesday night.

Alligator warning signs will also be put up near all the waterways at Walt Disney World resorts in Bay Lake following the boy's death.

It's unclear whether the signs will also be installed on Friday.

Disney's Jacquee Wahler, vice president of Walt Disney World Resort, issued the following statement regarding the construction of the fence: