Turk plane hijacked in Greece

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Wow... your debating style reminds me of 'I know you are but what am I'. You truly are a master debator.

he's a master-something all right...

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Looger

wow.

restating how these cultures co-existed in the same borders a few generations ago.

yep. retraction.

if you're going to lie, why not have the good sense to keep it to private messages?

why show off your sickness to everyone here? there might actually be a few who haven't realized your amazing google-related knowledge of all things yet.

You stated this:

The greeks and who ever has been living in modern day Turkey have been at each other throats for millenia..

...better check the history again there bub.

HINT: it's earlier than last week.

good luck.

I plainly and factually refuted it and then you try to change the subject.
Nice try.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Wow... your debating style reminds me of 'I know you are but what am I'. You truly are a master debator.

Why don't you run off and tell Azure how wrong of him it was to think that Afghani's may have been Arab for the 112th time?
I refute looger's statement ONCE and you personally attack me.

At least your consistent about being inconsistent.

[Looger]

White Doors:

whatever man. you put your OWN WORDS in my quote!

what is wrong with you???

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Looger

White Doors:

whatever man. you put your OWN WORDS in my quote!

what is wrong with you???

I wanted to include what you were responding to.
It takes a man to admit that you made an error.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by White Doors

I wanted to include what you were responding to.
It takes a man to admit that you made an error.

so...

when millions of greeks, ethnic and cultural, are living in anatolia / asia minor and the head of their church is in istanbul / constantinople, does that mean automatically that they're at war with their cousins across the dardanelles?

i'm getting sick of responding to your trash. you are clearly totally ignorant of real history and you just attack me wherever you think you have something, and it always turns out the same way.

but i'll keep responding, because stupidity like this HAS to be belittled. it's just too unreal. i'm almost convinced that agamemnon is posting in your name to make himself look brilliant, because that's all you really do around here.

whatever man. keep up the charade, because we're all so fooled!

[White Doors]

I said that Greeks and Turks have been warring for millenia and you said I better check again, so I did.

Do you get this angry in person when you make a mistake?

[Looger]

Originally Posted by White Doors

The greeks and who ever has been living in modern day Turkey have been at each other throats for millenia..

so...

if greeks were living in what is now modern turkey, what does that mean?

thought so.

[White Doors]

ok then...

The fact that the Ottoman empire conquered and ruled greece for some time does not make the Ottoman Empire Greek!

Under the Ottoman Empire, Greece was merely one of many exploited territories. The Turks practiced religious tolerance, but otherwise their regime was grasping and oppressive. Many Greek families (notably the Phanariots) were important in the administration of the empire, and the Greek merchants living in Constantinople and in the ports of Asia Minor, notably Izmir (Smyrna), were very prosperous; but Greece itself languished in obscurity and poverty. In the early 19th century the desire of the Greeks for independence was stimulated by growing nationalism, by the influence of the French Revolution, by the Turkish reverses in the Russo-Turkish wars, by the rebellion (1820) of Ali Pasha against the Ottoman Empire, and by the sympathetic attitude of Alexander I of Russia, whose foreign minister, Capodistria, was Greek. In 1821 the Greek War of Independence began under the leadership of Alexander and Demetrios Ypsilanti. European sentiment was overwhelmingly in favor of the Greek cause; financial aid poured in, and many foreign volunteers (of whom Lord Byron was the most celebrated) joined the Greek forces. Russia and England agreed (1826) to mediate between the Greeks and Turkey, and in 1827 the Greek political factions set aside their bitter rivalries to elect Capodistria president of Greece. England, Russia, and France joined in demanding an armistice. When Turkey refused, the allied fleets attacked and defeated the fleet of Muhammad Ali in the Battle of Navarino (1827). Only Russia, however, declared war (1828) on Turkey. Defeated, Turkey accepted the Treaty of Adrianople (1829) and recognized Greek autonomy.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by White Doors

ok then...

The fact that the Ottoman empire conquered and ruled greece for some time does not make the Ottoman Empire Greek!

holy words-in-my-mouth, batman!

you're reaching.

i expressed surprise at greece and turkey being as separated as they are based on SOME relatively recent co-existence, i wasn't denying long-term causes.

by framing all debates as one side or the other you build a straw man, and decide to take on your virtual opponent, when i never said that these cultures didn't have a long past of beligerence. i was pointing to a period of relative peace between said beligerence, and somehow you think i'm saying something that i'm not.

this is simply amazing.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Why don't you run off and tell Azure how wrong of him it was to think that Afghani's may have been Arab for the 112th time?
I refute looger's statement ONCE and you personally attack me.

At least your consistent about being inconsistent.

This is how you 'refute' someone?

Originally Posted by White Doors

Thanks Looger I'll take that as a retraction.

Sounds like the way my little 12 year old brother 'refutes' his friends claims... pretty immature. I'm not sure how I personally attacked you... I even called you a Master Debator.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Looger

holy words-in-my-mouth, batman!

you're reaching.

i expressed surprise at greece and turkey being as separated as they are based on SOME relatively recent co-existence, i wasn't denying long-term causes.

by framing all debates as one side or the other you build a straw man, and decide to take on your virtual opponent, when i never said that these cultures didn't have a long past of beligerence. i was pointing to a period of relative peace between said beligerence, and somehow you think i'm saying something that i'm not.

this is simply amazing.

Well the period of relative 'peace' was when they were conquered by the Ottomans... You don't see a contradiction in that?
not at all?

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

This is how you 'refute' someone?


Sounds like the way my little 12 year old brother 'refutes' his friends claims... pretty immature. I'm not sure how I personally attacked you... I even called you a Master Debator.

Did you have anything to add or are you just going to whine in the background?

[Looger]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Well the period of relative 'peace' was when they were conquered by the Ottomans... You don't see a contradiction in that?
not at all?

ummm...

the period i was referring to was AFTER greece's secession, and BEFORE turkey's rise of nationalism and a return to the really bad blood.

this debate... isn't actually even happening, because you are making crap up and claiming i said it.

go ahead, get that last word in...

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Did you have anything to add or are you just going to whine in the background?

Well... when I see someone lowering the character of the board through a highly immature 'I know you are but what am I' response, I feel compelled to point out that its not 'refutation', but wagging your mouth. I'm surprised you're challenging me for a point given your post I responded to had none, other than maintaining your board reputation.

As to Greece/Turkey fighting indefinitely through time, thats a bit of a stretch. City states in Greece fought City states in Greece, City states in Turkey fought City states in Turkey, and, sure, they also fought each other. I'd say more that the region has seen a lot of conflict than to imply that the Greeks have always been fighting the Turks. Thats a massive oversimplification of history, and ignores migratory patterns as well as periods with decades if not centuries of peace.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Thats a massive oversimplification of history, and ignores migratory patterns as well as periods with decades if not centuries of peace.

but Agamemnon, the mideast and mediterranean has been in conflict forever!

we have to sort it ALL OUT, RIGHT NOW!

iran hasn't been reforming since the last commercial break!

democracy, spread your mighty wings!

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Looger

but Agamemnon, the mideast and mediterranean has been in conflict forever!

we have to sort it ALL OUT, RIGHT NOW!

iran hasn't been reforming since the last commercial break!

democracy, spread your mighty wings!

ok then... thanks for coming out.
I corrected your error and you see neo-cons behind every corner.
haha

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Well... when I see someone lowering the character of the board through a highly immature 'I know you are but what am I' response, I feel compelled to point out that its not 'refutation', but wagging your mouth. I'm surprised you're challenging me for a point given your post I responded to had none, other than maintaining your board reputation.

As to Greece/Turkey fighting indefinitely through time, thats a bit of a stretch. City states in Greece fought City states in Greece, City states in Turkey fought City states in Turkey, and, sure, they also fought each other. I'd say more that the region has seen a lot of conflict than to imply that the Greeks have always been fighting the Turks. Thats a massive oversimplification of history, and ignores migratory patterns as well as periods with decades if not centuries of peace.

What are you the board referee?
Get over yourself.

I stated this:

The greeks and who ever has been living in modern day Turkey have been at each other throats for millenia..

My posts after that quite clearly back up this claim.
If either of you dispute it, prove it.

[White Doors]

Well... when I see someone lowering the character of the board through a highly immature 'I know you are but what am I' response

Not to mention the fact that I never said anything of the sort.

[White Doors]

I'm surprised you're challenging me for a point given your post I responded to had none, other than maintaining your board reputation.

Are you calling me a slut?