Have you ever actually listened to Noam Chomsky speak, or read one of his books? He makes no bones of the fact that he's only interested in bad things the U.S. and its lackeys like Israel do on the world stage. If you haven't encountered the kind of dogmatic leftist who will trace back any crime perpetrated by any regime in the world to the sinister influence of the U.S., then you've led a pretty sheltered life.
Yeah, I have, and I think you're still missing the point. Do you think the legacies of colonialism and U.S. foreign policy have not had profound effects on the developing nations and their indigenous peoples? I'm really not sure how reminding people of historical context is dogmatic or extremist. And reducing the sum of Chomsky's intellectual career in such a manner is about as intellectually lazy and dishonest as it gets, and I'm hardly a massive Chomsky fan.
It's not the sum of his career, but it sure is a pretty thick bookend to it.
Okay but again, I'm not exactly sure what's dogmatic about connecting dots. And like I said, Cliff is missing the point. Implicating colonialism, American imperialism, etc. /= absolving other cultures of heinous acts.
The funny thing is the racism implied in it. These countries full of brown people are incapable of controlling their countries because of colonialism. We drew some bad lines in 1920 and now these people are just too dumb to do anything about it.
It's ridiculous.
There are many other places in the world the West ####ed up with colonialism who have gotten on their feet or are at least making progress.
The reason is a contrarian attitude to education fueled by extreme religion, not the big bad US and Israel.
Sen. John McCain said Thursday that President Barack Obama was "directly responsible" for the massacre at the gay nightclub in Orlando, though McCain later said he "misspoke."
"Barack Obama is directly responsible for it because when he pulled everybody out of Iraq, al Qaeda went to Syria, became ISIS, and ISIS is what it is today thanks to Barack Obama's failures -- utter failures, by pulling everybody out of Iraq, thinking that conflicts end just because you leave. So the responsibility for it lies with President Barack Obama and his failed policies," McCain told reporters on Capitol Hill.
Quote:
McCain said later he "misspoke," using a statement to clarify that it was not the President himself who was "personally responsible," but his "security decisions."
"I misspoke. I did not mean to imply that the President was personally responsible. I was referring to President Obama's national security decisions, not the President himself. As I have said, President Obama's decision to completely withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq in 2011 led to the rise of ISIL," McCain said, using another name for ISIS.
The Quest stands upon the edge of a knife. Stray but a little, and it will fail, to the ruin of all. Yet hope remains while the Company is true. Go Flames Go!
The funny thing is the racism implied in it. These countries full of brown people are incapable of controlling their countries because of colonialism. We drew some bad lines in 1920 and now these people are just too dumb to do anything about it.
It's ridiculous.
There are many other places in the world the West ####ed up with colonialism who have gotten on their feet or are at least making progress.
The reason is a contrarian attitude to education fueled by extreme religion, not the big bad US and Israel.
"Some people who were abused as children grow up just fine, so I don't see why all of them don't grow up fine."
Come on, man. Are we just going to ignore the effects of the Cold War and international power politics in various regions as well?
Yeah, I have, and I think you're still missing the point. Do you think the legacies of colonialism and U.S. foreign policy have not had profound effects on the developing nations and their indigenous peoples? I'm really not sure how reminding people of historical context is dogmatic or extremist. And reducing the sum of Chomsky's intellectual career in such a manner is about as intellectually lazy and dishonest as it gets, and I'm hardly a massive Chomsky fan.
Looking only at the good the U.S. has done and saying it's your duty to support your country right or wrong = dogmatic nonsense.
Looking only at the bad the U.S. has done and granting the moral high ground to every regime that has ever come into conflict with the U.S. = dogmatic nonsense.
Chomsky and his acolytes are no more nuanced that the uber-patriots they hate. You will never hear them compare the U.S. favourably to any other country, or recognize that the U.S. has done anything good on the international stage since WW2. And they will characterize every bad actor in the world as either a puppet of the U.S. or a blowback from bad U.S. policy. It's the typical conspiracy-theory need to believe in the Ultimate Agent of Oppression, the sinister force that's behind everything.
Taking the opposite stance of people who believe simplistic idiocy is usually just another kind of simplistic idiocy.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Really? That's your lane? These aren't children, they're nations.
No one ignores it, but sorry, it's not the sole cause of all the hardship.
Actually they're people. Nations aren't autonomous entities that transcend the collective experiences of their peoples. There are pretty substantial differences in the historical trajectories of say post-colonial India vs. post-colonial Palestine that might somehow have profound effects on the psyche of their respective peoples. And the list of countries who are "thriving" in the post-colonial era tends to get pretty small when you include the plights of their indigenous peoples.
Looking only at the good the U.S. has done and saying it's your duty to support your country right or wrong = dogmatic nonsense.
Looking only at the bad the U.S. has done and granting the moral high ground to every regime that has ever come into conflict with the U.S. = dogmatic nonsense.
Chomsky and his acolytes are no more nuanced that the uber-patriots they hate. You will never hear them compare the U.S. favourably to any other country, or recognize that the U.S. has done anything good on the international stage since WW2. And they will characterize every bad actor in the world as either a puppet of the U.S. or a blowback from bad U.S. policy. It's the typical conspiracy-theory need to believe in the Ultimate Agent of Oppression, the sinister force that's behind everything.
Do you ever consider a person's self-perceived sphere of influence and familiarity when analyzing an argument? I'm much more likely to criticize the Canadian government when they violate environmental laws or human rights than I am China because I perceive that I have more influence in Canada than China and I'm more familiar with our political system.
Actually they're people. Nations aren't autonomous entities that transcend the collective experiences of their peoples. There are pretty substantial differences in the historical trajectories of say post-colonial India vs. post-colonial Palestine that might somehow have profound effects on the psyche of their respective peoples. And the list of countries who are "thriving" in the post-colonial era tends to get pretty small when you include the plights of their indigenous peoples.
Yes, multiple people. Multiple millions of people, not all of who are suffering from the psychological trauma you equate with child abuse. I think there are differences in the places that have moved onto something (no where did I suggest thriving) and the ones that are still total ####holes, and it's not solely colonialism. Colonialism isn't even a majority factor.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
The Following User Says Thank You to nik- For This Useful Post:
Yes, multiple people. Multiple millions of people, not all of who are suffering from the psychological trauma you equate with child abuse. I think there are differences in the places that have moved onto something (no where did I suggest thriving) and the ones that are still total ####holes, and it's not solely colonialism. Colonialism isn't even a majority factor.
I don't think anyone would claim that colonialism was or is the sole factor but that the ripple effect of it tends to last for a few generations. Let's get away from the child abuse analogy and look at say African-Americans. There are clearly African-Americans who have risen above the systemic racism in the U.S. That doesn't mean that the legacies of racism and slavery aren't still factors contributing to issues facing the African-American community. And like I said, we're not just talking about colonialism. A country like Iraq has had the misfortune of being on the wrong side of both colonialism and interventionist U.S. foreign policy. It really shouldn't be a surprise that Iraq is the mess that it is. A lot of these "####holes" have also had to deal with various outside influences installing and/or propping up ruthless regimes. So yeah, I can't blame the West for the cultural elements of a Saudi regime that brutalizes women, but I can certainly blame the West for continuing to prop up said regime in order to protect its interests in the region.
Over the next 90 minutes, as we stood and occasionally shuffled toward the hangar together, Jim offered his theories on a variety of government and corporate conspiracies. This first one involved the air force releasing a toxic mixture of chemicals into the atmosphere, which he claimed they had been doing for 30 years. “They’re manipulating the weather with technology,” he said, “and they call it climate change. But really they’re changing the climate with technology.” He pointed to a wash of cirrus clouds high in the western sky. “See those fake-ass clouds? They use them to block out the sun. That’s why we don’t have springtime any more.”
By quoting Jim, I realise I’ve made him sound nuts. But Jim wasn’t all that nuts. His theories were occasionally bizarre, but he expressed them calmly, and to everyone in line he was gregarious and kind. He laughed at appropriate moments. He was friendly and generous, repeatedly buying water for people around him, expressing interest in people, doing normal-people things. Later in this piece, I’ll quote Jim again, and again he’ll sound nuts, but all I can say here is that when you spend 90 minutes next to someone, you can gauge their level of loony, and Jim was merely a low-grade crank – not unlike that certain uncle in any family who’s fun to be around but who holds strange views about, say, water fluoridation.
Quote:
“I read his books years ago and always loved the guy,” Ron said. “I always wished he would run. His books are all easy reads. Simple English. Read them and you’ll say ‘Holy guacamole, this guy had a crystal ball!’ He predicted everything – 9/11, everything. Guy’s a freaking genius. He had a 159 IQ when he graduated from college. Imagine what it is now!”
OK. Now, by quoting Ron, I’ve made him out to sound like a lunatic, too. But Ron was not really a lunatic. Ron was likable and sympathetic, given how desperate he was to have a handful of people listen to him talk about his two heroes: Donald J Trump and Ronald Reagan. In his mind, the two men were equally great, cut from the same iconic cloth.
Quote:
But this is not true. Something very different is happening. His supporters are not really listening to anything he says. They cheer when he says he’ll help the veterans, they cheer when he says he’ll build a wall, but ultimately they do not care what he says. They don’t care if he actually will build a wall. If Trump decided, tomorrow, to reverse himself on the idea of building a wall, his supporters would shrug and their support would not waver. He has been for gun control and against gun control. He has stated his support for Planned Parenthood and for the idea of criminal punishment for women who seek abortions. He has called the Iraq war, and most of our adventures in the Middle East, mistakes, but has said he would carpet bomb Isis. He has reversed himself on nearly every major issue, often in the same week, and has offered scant specifics on anything in particular – though in Sacramento, about infrastructure, he did say, “We’re gonna have new roads, bridges, all that stuff”.
His supporters do not care. Nothing in Trump’s platform matters. There is no policy that matters. There is no promise that matters. There is no villain, no scapegoat, that matters. If, tomorrow, he said that Canadians, not Mexicans, were rapists and drug dealers, and the wall should be built on that border, no one would blink. His poll numbers would not waver. Because there are no positions and no statements that matter to them. There is only the man, the name, the brand, the personality they have seen on television.
Quote:
This began a steady flow of the departing. These people had arrived at 4pm, had waited three hours and now, at 7.30pm, they were leaving. Trump was still talking, but they were not worried about missing anything he would say, because they did not care. They had seen him, heard thezingers, taken a picture or two, and now they were heading to the parking lot, to get a head start on the traffic.
__________________ "We are no longer living. We are empty of substance, and our head devours us. Our ancestors were more alive. Nothing separated them from themselves."
The Following User Says Thank You to Swift For This Useful Post:
The guy who lives at the end of my street has a big TRUMP sign on his lawn. Guess we know who not to invite to the neighbourhood events (if we ever have any).
