2 year old boy snatched by alligator at Disney World

[cracher]

Originally Posted by dubc80

Sad story. I have a son who turns 2 in September so I can relate.

First thing I think of when I see a "No Swimming" signs is:
- Poor water quality
- Drowning risk
- No lifeguard on duty

No way I would of thought it related to alligators. From what Ive read, this is on a beach on a family Disney resort. The presence of alligators would of been the last thing on my mind.

I bet I'd let my little guy go splash on the edge of the water too, if I'm only a few feet away.

Guess that makes me an irresponsible parent. . Thoughts go out to the victims.

Those 3 items you listed are not enough to keep your kid out of the water? In the context of the grand Floridian, there are at least 2 pools for recreation. One of the pools is no more than a 5-iron away from where this tragedy occured. Clean water, bars and snack places, kid's play area. When I was at this place with my then 2 year old, it was a no-brainer.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

This. Are people missing the part that this was at a family resort with groomed sand and lounge chairs, and not some random marshy pond in the everglades? If Disney doesn't want people strolling along the water, they should put rocks down - the kind you see at all kinds of shorelines where they don't want people to walk.

This is not Disney World, it's off the resort. And it absolutely is some random marshy pond like you'd see in the everglades. This isn't some man-made pool made to look like a lagoon. Take a look at the pictured of the Seven Seas Lagoon on google.

You can't drive 5 feet up the road without seeing an Alligator in Florida. Unless you are in a pool or the ocean, you damn well better be careful as to what you do in the water. People shouldn't have to chaperons from out of state to constantly remind them of that danger.

I would agree though that having a beach like that at the resort, seems rather ridiculous, but we don't know all the details yet. Maybe that beach is on fenced in area and they were at another unsecured spot.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

I guess there is ample time now to debate whether or not wading through the lake is considered swimming.

It was a kid on a beach standing 1 foot from where the water started...

Once again, if it was really risk, Disney should have put up a barricade, not hosted a party and set up chairs on a groomed beach.

This was a freak incident where a gator managed to sneak past a series of barriers. Like Nieuwendyk said, the odds are similar to getting hit by lightning.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The Grand Floridian isn't "part" of the amusement park, yes, but it is the main hotel, owned by Disney, is Disney themed, etc. You take a ferry from the hotel to the Magic Kingdom park.

But this is the water front.



There are lounge chairs not 15 feet from the water. If I had an inkling that gators were a serious concern, I wouldn't even bring my child to that beach. But there it is, a beach for guests to visit, rest, etc.

I don't look at that beach and think "danger".

What would a body of water have to look like in order for you think of danger? Reason being, there are places with appearances that are as nicer, or nicer, with much more dangerous things in them. Can we assume that we should ignore those risks because the water doesn't look scary?

[Joe Nieuwendyk]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Didn't happen in Disney World, I'd be a bit more understanding if it did as most would think you are free from all hazards there once you are in the theme park.

It did happen in Disney World - Disney World is made up of several Theme Parks and resorts.

common sense would suggest you are in Florida and going into a large natural lagoon (not man-made) would be a bad idea, especially at night.

The Seven Seas Lagoon is man-made

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The Grand Floridian isn't "part" of the amusement park, yes, but it is the main hotel, owned by Disney, is Disney themed, etc. You take a ferry from the hotel to the Magic Kingdom park.

But this is the water front.



There are lounge chairs not 15 feet from the water. If I had an inkling that gators were a serious concern, I wouldn't even bring my child to that beach. But there it is, a beach for guests to visit, rest, etc.

I don't look at that beach and think "danger".

I look at that beach, think I'm in Florida, and there's zero chance in hell myself or my kids (if I had any) are getting in that water. To me it's only common sense there are alligators in there. You can't control an area that big.

Whether there was adequate signage or not will be the debate (some reports say there are alligator signs, some reports say there aren't), but knowing where I am in the world, there's no way i'm letting my kids in there, let alone a 2 year old later in the evening.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I look at that beach, think I'm in Florida, and there's zero chance in hell myself or my kids (if I had any) are getting in that water. To me it's only common sense there are alligators in there. You can't control an area that big.

Now you do, after being in this thread and reading this news. It's pretty easy to say that now with all this hindsight.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Joe Nieuwendyk

It did happen in Disney World - Disney World is made up of several Theme Parks and resorts.



The Seven Seas Lagoon is man-made

Man-made isn't really the word I was looking for. It's a big body of water, not some little area they can fence it and make sure nothing gets in. Same thing as golf courses down there, to big to control. They are going to get in. There are no questions about it.

[bigtmac19]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Really? So you would allow your 2 year old to wade in a lagoon where signs are posted saying no swimming and it is pretty damn obvious gators live in Florida and lagoons. Is that what you are implying? Really? I understand the cool thing is to be all bleeding hearts for any parent that loses as child even if their own stupidity was a factor in the child's death. I get that when pure negligence causes a tragic death most people don't care about that fact, it is feel bad for the family and let's turn a blind eye to why this happened and the fact it should never have if people were more responsible and careful. I see this day after day in my line of work, it is always someone else's fault or nobody's.

Are you prepared to rage like this to these parents? Do you think there is anything you are saying that they probably have not said to themselves already? They are suffering a loss hopefully very few will ever suffer, and any parent could not even imagine. How about a little decency and empathy?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by blankall

It was a kid on a beach standing 1 foot from where the water started...

Once again, if it was really risk, Disney should have put up a barricade, not hosted a party and set up chairs on a groomed beach.

This was a freak incident where a gator managed to sneak past a series of barriers. Like Nieuwendyk said, the odds are similar to getting hit by lightning.

If they've pulled 5 other gators out of the lagoon I'm not sure the odds are that long.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by nik-

Now you do, after being in this thread and reading this news. It's pretty easy to say that now with all this hindsight.

Hindsight has nothing to do with. I would have had the same concerns before this incident. I know i'm in an alligator infested area, and I know they are in all the lakes, sloughs, ponds in Florida. There's no chance I, or anyone in my party would be getting in that water.

Even if the resort had no signs (which I doubt), I sure as hell would have asked someone before I or my kids got anywhere near that water because you know..... I'm in Florida.

I spent one month down there, and I would often ask people when I'd walk to a bar or restaurant if I needed to be careful of alligators and snakes. The answer I got every time was that I should be fine but don't walk close to water or wooded areas, especially at night because the alligators were active at night and slept all day due to the heat.

Terrible accident for sure, but people have a leg to stand on when wondering what these parents were thinking.

[Joe Nieuwendyk]

One assumption that people have made is that the No Swimming has anything to do with alligators. From what I can tell, they don't allow swimming because of the danger of boats, bacteria and the lack of lifeguards.

Water-skiing is allowed, as are the many triathlons held there.

[rbochan]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

...You couldn't pay me enough to get me to jump in any water that wasn't the ocean in that State...

But fish PEE IN THERE!

And that's not to mention the sharks...

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Joe Nieuwendyk

One assumption that people have made is that the No Swimming has anything to do with alligators. From what I can tell, they don't allow swimming because of the danger of boats, bacteria and the lack of lifeguards.

Water-skiing is allowed, as are the many triathlons held there.

Not to mention that alligators are also capable of leaving the water....

If the child had been pulled in while standing 3 feet from the water, would that have been the difference maker?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by V

The dude's a park ranger. He knows what he's talking about.

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Oh, okay! Well that makes sense.

Being a Park Ranger, dissentowner would be closer to the situation. Ranging all those Parks he has undoubtably seen some stupid behaviour by people trying to get close to potentially dangerous wildlife. Maybe this hits home for him. Thanks for the clarification, V!

That makes more sense now. I thought he said he was a cop, which always made me uneasy with some of his past stories and how easily he comes unhinged.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by rbochan

But fish PEE IN THERE!

And that's not to mention the sharks...

They estimate that there are 1.5 million alligators in the state of Florida alone (and could be up to 3 M because it's just an estimate). The likelyhood of an encounter with an alligator in brackish water is extremely high.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by blankall

Not to mention that alligators are also capable of leaving the water....

If the child had been pulled in while standing 3 feet from the water, would that have been the difference maker?

It does seem pretty stupid that the resort has that beach. That lagoon looks like prime alligator real-estate to me. You'd think they'd have rocks there or something forming some kind of barrier.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

It does seem pretty stupid that the resort has that beach. That lagoon looks like prime alligator real-estate to me. You'd think they'd have rocks there or something forming some kind of barrier.

I think this is definitely the biggest issue.

As an outsider, who has never dealt with an alligator before, I would assume that the resort would have taken steps to avoid having alligators on the resort if they are inviting me and my children to an event held at that location.

Not only are there no barriers to the water, but they've placed groomed sand and infrastructure all along and into the water. This is a family resort. The only way to stop a 2 year old from splashing in that water would be to physically restrain him.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

If they've pulled 5 other gators out of the lagoon I'm not sure the odds are that long.

It's a pretty big lagoon. I'm guessing parts of it have barriers preventing gators from getting in, while parts of it are more au natural.

We just have a freak situation where a hungry gator that was small enough to slip by the security but big enough to kill a small child got through.

And yes, I feel sorry for the innocent gators, but once an animal like that gets a taste for human flesh, you have to put it down. Animals will always return to a source of food.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Hindsight has nothing to do with. I would have had the same concerns before this incident. I know i'm in an alligator infested area, and I know they are in all the lakes, sloughs, ponds in Florida. There's no chance I, or anyone in my party would be getting in that water.

Even if the resort had no signs (which I doubt), I sure as hell would have asked someone before I or my kids got anywhere near that water because you know..... I'm in Florida.

I spent one month down there, and I would often ask people when I'd walk to a bar or restaurant if I needed to be careful of alligators and snakes. The answer I got every time was that I should be fine but don't walk close to water or wooded areas, especially at night because the alligators were active at night and slept all day due to the heat.

Terrible accident for sure, but people have a leg to stand on when wondering what these parents were thinking.

So you were unsure enough of the danger that you had to keep asking people if there was a danger?