2016 NHL Draft

[868904]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

To me, this is the difference between Kessel and Doan. Kessel wasn't fit to lead the Leafs, but he was perfect for the Penguins. Doan was fit to lead the Coyotes, even though he wasn't skilled enough to lead them to a championship.

Even if Nylander isn't the leader we need, he can provide elite secondary scoring behind the Gaudreau line, while either Bennett or Monahan are playing defense or heavy hockey. Besides, Nylander had better "determination" when it came to his health at the combine.

When you put it like that, I definitely want the guy who projects as the next Doan. Sure Kessel just won the Cup but he's also on his third team, and his first two teams couldn't wait to get rid of him. As for Doan, he's been the foundation of the Coyotes and is nearing his 20th season. It's not Doan's fault that Coyotes management has never acquired a Crosby or Malkin to play with Doan.

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Wasn't Kane a year younger in his last full season?

It's U18, so both were 17-18 years old.
Kane has a late birthday (Nov), so his next season (where he played in the OHL) was his draft year.
Regardless of who drafts him, i'll be following Keller at BU. I have no doubt he'll make a seamless transition.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by 868904

When you put it like that, I definitely want the guy who projects as the next Doan. Sure Kessel just won the Cup but he's also on his third team, and his first two teams couldn't wait to get rid of him. As for Doan, he's been the foundation of the Coyotes and is nearing his 20th season. It's not Doan's fault that Coyotes management has never acquired a Crosby or Malkin to play with Doan.

If I was starting a rebuild, I would draft Doan over Kessel any day. But the Flames aren't starting a rebuild and have in place some great character and leadership assets in Bennett, Monahan, Brodie and Giordano, as well as Frolik, Backlund and maybe guys like Bouma and Ferland. Other than Gaudreau, who else is a game breaker talent? The Flames don't need a Doan in their current line-up, they need a Kessel (in their forward needs department anyways), and they also need a righty.

Nylander can play in the AHL, can fit perfectly in the RW spot, and he's in physical shape to handle the NHL right now. He needs some AHL time to build some mass and play some two-way hockey, but Tkachuk, on the other hand, is either fighting for a crowded LW position, or he learns to play on his off-wing. It's also likely he plays in the OHL for another two seasons if he doesn't crack the lineup off the bat, which is not good for a guy who just won a Memorial Cup. The good thing about Tkachuk is that he has weight, even though it could be bad weight based on combine results.

[dammage79]

Not a fan of Tkachuk, but he's pure LW all the time. I think the idea for Tkachuk is #1 or #2 LW with Gaudreau switching to RW. Not a fan of the idea. There's a perfectly legit talented RW RHS with immense skill the Flames really need. But Nylander played LW a lot this past season too so his diversity is a plus.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

I like the look of Chychrun... but I also liked the look Phaneuf.

He has all the physical tools which you can't teach, but if he doesn't have a toolbox upstairs he could be another very talented Gong Show in his own end like Dion.

Big difference between Chychrun and Phaneuf is that Chychrun is an elite skater and Phaneuf was mediocre. Not sure Chychrun is getting a fair shake with the toolbox, hockey IQ questions. You don't really ever see those in scouting reports, from what I can tell it has been created by fans to explain his drop. He dropped because he had a mediocre year while other players like Juolevi and Sergachev had excellent years. Chychrun's strengths are his defensive zone play and his skating so the Phaneuf comparison seems weak. If you're not a believer in Chychrun then I think Button's Bogosian comparison seems apt. But if you are a believer in Chychrun then it seems people compare him to Ekblad.

He's a real wildcard. I think he's been downplayed a bit too heavily on this board.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You have gone out of your way to downplay Nylander so much in this thread and provide us reasons the Flames won't or shouldn't pick him that I fear you may go into cardiac arrest if he's the guy picked at 6 by the Flames.

Hah. I actually don't mind Nylander as a prospect. If we were picking around 9th/10th I'd be super happy to draft him. I just think there'll be better, more valuable prospects available at #6. I just doubt that he's top 6 for the Flames scouts but I could be wrong.

If the Flames pick him at #6 I'd be very excited about his upside and potential. But I'd still bet against it happening

[sureLoss]

Red Line reports top 10 forwards for the 2016 draft:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...chuk/85875602/

[sureLoss]

nhl.com's top 10 LWs of the 2016 draft

https://www.nhl.com/news/top-10-left...?tid=277764372

1. Tkachuk
2. Dubois
3. Nylander
4. Bellows
5. Jones
6. Tufte
7. Benson
8. Katchouk
9. Kopacka
10. Gettinger

[sureLoss]

Scouts discuss Tkachuk vs Dubois. NHL.com polled 11 NHL scouts and 6 to 5 preferred Dubois.

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-draft-p...?tid=277764372

Scouts in favor of Dubois:

"If I come away with either of them at the draft, I'm pretty happy, but I still feel Dubois has that complete game. He's such a smart player and can play up and down your lineup. I think Tkachuk has a natural scoring ability and playmaking ability that's maybe on a higher end than Dubois, but Dubois will do more."

"Taking nothing away from Tkachuk, because below the dots in the offensive zone I don't know if there's anyone any better. But for an overall and complete game I like Dubois. I don't think you can hold against Tkachuk the fact he played with [Mitchell] Marner and [Christian] Dvorak. I noticed at times he was almost trying to force a play and being a little too unselfish. I still see Tkachuk as a dominant player with or without those linemates, but I see Dubois with a slightly better projection down the line."

"I just think we're pretty much seeing the complete player Tkachuk is going to be, which is tremendous and there's nothing wrong with that. But I think there's a really high ceiling with Dubois. Tkachuk had the luxury of being in a system where you're playing a pro game with special teams where he'll be an asset with what he does. If we flip-flopped, Dubois would have been just as effective. Tkachuk is already competing like a pro, and Dubois is a great competitor, but I think he's going to understand there's another gear to get to. There's a great history of people who have been in the NHL for a while who learn how to compete even harder, and I think there's some room for that from Dubois."

"Tkachuk is able to get behind guys because of what he's able to do with the puck and doesn't lose speed with the puck even though his speed isn't his best asset. But there's one thing that worries me about taking Tkachuk over Dubois, and that is that Dubois' skating and ability makes him less vulnerable. People can skate with Tkachuk, but that said, he might be the best competitor I've ever seen."

Scouts in favor of Tkachuk:

"I think I'd go with Tkachuk. He's seen what it takes from his dad and seems like a game-breaker. He's a guy who did it again in the Memorial Cup final and seems to come through in clutch situations."

"If I'm Edmonton, I'm taking Tkachuk. Looking at the long-term projection, I'd take Tkachuk because the Oilers need what he has [with the No. 4 pick]. Tkachuk has had an impact on most games. You wonder about his skating, but as another scout said to me the other night, he gets behind people all the time and is able to get to where he needs to be. The Oilers can then try and trade to get the NHL-ready defenseman. They need a defenseman right now, and prospects Jakob Chychrun, Olli Juolevi or Mikhail Sergachev might not be able to play immediately after being drafted."

"Tkachuk finds a way to produce. Obviously I've seen him a lot more over the last two years. I don't care what level he plays, he finds a way to score. For me, it's Tkachuk. He's smart with the puck and so strong."

"Knowing the Tkachuk dynamic as a family, the kid just wins and he can play fast and is good from the circles on down. He's a kid you win with in May and June. That's no slight against Dubois, but for me the deciding factor is knowing the Tkachuk family dynamic. You know the type of player you are getting."

Interesting that some scouts just prefer Tkachuk because of his last name.

[AC]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Red Line reports top 10 forwards for the 2016 draft:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...chuk/85875602/

How does someone screenshot that list from Microsoft Word leaving the red underlines?

Add to Dictionary!

[Flaming Choy]

Originally Posted by AC

How does someone screenshot that list from Microsoft Word leaving the red underlines?

Add to Dictionary!

I thought that's why it's called "Red Line Report".

[jaikorven]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Hah. I actually don't mind Nylander as a prospect. If we were picking around 9th/10th I'd be super happy to draft him. I just think there'll be better, more valuable prospects available at #6. I just doubt that he's top 6 for the Flames scouts but I could be wrong.

If the Flames pick him at #6 I'd be very excited about his upside and potential. But I'd still bet against it happening

All I want to say is kudos on this response. With all the bashing of other posters on here lately, this was just a great response.

I do however think I would prefer Nylander at 6 due to the elite skill sentiment from scouts, but if one of Dubois or Tkachuk dropped to 6 then even better.

[rogermexico]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Interesting that some scouts just prefer Tkachuk because of his last name.

I've been seeing the word "bloodlines" thrown around a lot, as in "You've got to love the bloodlines", "He's got strong bloodlines, which is a plus"... I always wonder how much that plays in to these evaluations (and if it should?)

[jaikorven]

Originally Posted by rogermexico

I've been seeing the word "bloodlines" thrown around a lot, as in "You've got to love the bloodlines", "He's got strong bloodlines, which is a plus"... I always wonder how much that plays in to these evaluations (and if it should?)

Seems more common with thoroughbred horses and dogs to me, but what do I know. Argument might be made around genetics, but I am no expert...lol

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by rogermexico

I've been seeing the word "bloodlines" thrown around a lot, as in "You've got to love the bloodlines", "He's got strong bloodlines, which is a plus"... I always wonder how much that plays in to these evaluations (and if it should?)

Totally agree. And it works in reverse for a guy like Nylander.

[sureLoss]

Dan Murphy @sportsnetmurph
Teams are calling #Canucks about #5 pick but Benning not looking to trade down.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by rogermexico

I've been seeing the word "bloodlines" thrown around a lot, as in "You've got to love the bloodlines", "He's got strong bloodlines, which is a plus"... I always wonder how much that plays in to these evaluations (and if it should?)

It would matter if these guys were racehorses.

[Par]

Burke needs to shut up.

"Flames’ Burke places emphasis on size ahead of NHL Draft".

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/f...ead-nhl-draft/

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Big difference between Chychrun and Phaneuf is that Chychrun is an elite skater and Phaneuf was mediocre. Not sure Chychrun is getting a fair shake with the toolbox, hockey IQ questions. You don't really ever see those in scouting reports, from what I can tell it has been created by fans to explain his drop. He dropped because he had a mediocre year while other players like Juolevi and Sergachev had excellent years. Chychrun's strengths are his defensive zone play and his skating so the Phaneuf comparison seems weak. If you're not a believer in Chychrun then I think Button's Bogosian comparison seems apt. But if you are a believer in Chychrun then it seems people compare him to Ekblad.

He's a real wildcard. I think he's been downplayed a bit too heavily on this board.

Whenever I hear the toolbox reference I think of Harry Neale's quote about Michel Petit when he was with the Flames, "all the tools but no toolbox."

[Canada 02]

The Tkachuk family dynamic? What a dumb reason to rate one player higher
What if Matt gets fat like his father. Is that part of his family dynamic?