[Rumour] G.Gulutzan front-runner for Flames HC - UPD: Hasn't been officially offered contract

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Reirden would be a smart hire.

Gulutzan is not. And yes I am not a fan of Treliving when it comes to the Hartley firing.

As a deal maker concerning trades Treliving is the right man. He has made mostly trades favorable to the Flames benefit. I have no problem giving you an answer on Treliving.The Hartley firing really #$/% me off so there it is I lost respect for him on that aspect. Hartley should have been given this year. Treliving signed 3 goalies not Hartley. That messed up the first 2 months Treliving is as much to blame. Instead he used Hartley as a scape goat

Instead of being a man and admitting to himself he signed 3 goalies because he was sure he could move Hiller or Ramo.

Let's be honest here most everyone in the hockey world thought Hiller was going to be moved.

Hartley now had to manage Brad's gaff.

So what happened at the end of the year Hartley pays for Treliving's own screw up.



On Gulutzan It is not the right hire and it makes me angry that Hartley was fired and could possibly be replaced with this.

For the record, I liked Hartley and felt he should've got one more year with an improved goaltending situation. That's said, it's kind of telling that you haven't heard his name remotely mentioned for any of the coaching jobs out there, both head and assistant. Seems like Brad wasn't alone in his assessment.

[Timbo]

Stay Golden is entitled to his view on Gulutzan and Treliving be it right,wrong or completely out in left field.
Some of you asked for clarification ...fair enough.
However some posters jumped on him like seagulls at the dump after the garbage mound has been freshly turned.

All that I can say about whomever is chosen as our coach is that his resume is irrelevant. It's a result orientated job and past success does not insure future success.
Sometimes we really over think things.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

Have HF refugees started showing up here or something? What's going on?

Wish we could build a wall......

[ricardodw]

This coming season the Flames Coach will be dealing with a locker room full of guys who have their financial future guaranteed no matter how they play:

Guys who should have 10M to spare over the next 2-3 years.

Gaudreau
Monahan
Gio
Hamilton
Frolik
Wideman
Raymond
Stajan
Engelland
whatever NHL goalie the Flames have to overpay to obtain.


If any of these guys go work to rule on the coach there are very little levers that the Coach can use.

The number of value contracts is significantly less:

Brodie
Jokipakka
Bennett
Ferland

Obviously Hartley's run and gun system based on the getting the best out of his limited talent roster has been defeated by exposure. (ie once the coaches in the league saw what he was doing they were able to defeat it... It took a longer than it should have while because they didn't believe that it was an actual system but something that happened accidentally in a few games)

Hartley's greatest coaching was making the playoff games against the Ducks somewhat competitive.

There will be a new, less gimmicky system.
Very little chance that the new coach will be a better game strategist.

The big problem the new coach is inheriting a problem that Hartley did not have in 2014-15 but was growing as the Flames moved from the bottom of the Salary cap to the top.

What does he do to get the financially set for life players to play hard hockey?

Gulutzan has been close with Willie Desjardins.... Willie being his assistant in Dallas and getting the favor returned in Vancouver.

Coach Desjardins spent last off season travelling to his financially set for life players homes across Canada to try to establish a working relationship and personal loyalty.

I wonder if this will be Coach Gulutzan's plan?

Does Trevling feel that Desjardins plan worked? Did he get as much as he could out of his best players?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Timbo

Stay Golden is entitled to his view on Gulutzan and Treliving be it right,wrong or completely out in left field.
Some of you asked for clarification ...fair enough.
However some posters jumped on him like seagulls at the dump after the garbage mound has been freshly turned.

Wow. At least nobody had resorted to calling him a mound of freshly turned garbage... until now!

[dissentowner]

Jesus, what a gong show this thread has become

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Cinephile

The mob mentality that some posters possess is downright pitiful and degrades the quality of this forum.

When there were several candidates in the running, people argued about who they liked better. But it was pretty low-key.

Once a front-runner was announced, the pack closed ranks around him and that's where we got the mob mentality. The moment Gulutzan became 'our guy' it became disloyal to criticize him and dumb to second-guess the GM. Never mind that second-guessing the GM (and the coach) is one of the main reasons for sports forums to even exist.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Because you are all Canucks, and everyone hates you.

Careful. More talk like that and you'll confirm that conspiracy some of us have been talking about since 2011.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

When there were several candidates in the running, people argued about who they liked better. But it was pretty low-key.

Once a front-runner was announced, the pack closed ranks around him and that's where we got the mob mentality. The moment Gulutzan became 'our guy' it became disloyal to criticize him and dumb to second-guess the GM. Never mind that second-guessing the GM (and the coach) is one of the main reasons for sports forums to even exist.

It seems that over time this has become a Fanboy dominated site.

Anyone outside of the group think is to be attacked as haters... Not the concept presented but the individuals.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Reirden would be a smart hire.

Why?

Gulutzan is not. And yes I am not a fan of Treliving when it comes to the Hartley firing.

Why not? I know you have already panned Gulutzen for his middling results in his brief time as a NHL coach on the bench of a fairly average team in Dallas, but by that same measure, I am missing whatever it is you clearly see in Reirden that makes his such an obviously better choice. He has less than two years of head coaching experience at any level, and his winning percentage in the AHL is actually quite a bit lower (0.572) than Gulutzen's (0.597). It seems very strange that you have such a strong preference for the coach who has accomplished so much less between the two.

As a deal maker concerning trades Treliving is the right man. He has made mostly trades favorable to the Flames benefit. I have no problem giving you an answer on Treliving.The Hartley firing really #$/% me off so there it is I lost respect for him on that aspect. Hartley should have been given this year.

Perhaps. But only if the evaluation of Hartley was based solely upon team performance, and even then a good case can be made for Treliving's decision—this was a former playoff team that finished in the bottom-five of the NHL. Based on what Treliving said about the decision to fire Hartley it is abundantly clear that there were other factors that contributed to his decision; most notably, the fact that he and Hartley were clearly at odds about how to operate the team, and that is a serious problem. Simply put: if Treliving could not work with Hartley and vice versa, then Treliving had to let him go.

Treliving signed 3 goalies not Hartley. That messed up the first 2 months Treliving is as much to blame. Instead he used Hartley as a scape goat
Instead of being a man and admitting to himself he signed 3 goalies because he was sure he could move Hiller or Ramo.

You are being patently unfair here, because Treliving did accept responsibility in public for his part in this. Yes. This was a mistake, and he owned it. If every NHL general manager was held to such a strict standard of success, then virtually all teams would turn them over biannually. Hartley was not "scape goated." You would have a case if Treliving had come out and claimed that the performance of the Flames' goalies and the team in the first part of the season was his reason for dismissing Hartley, but he didn't. Rather, he referenced more specifically the very poor special teams play, possession metrics, and basic philosophical differences.

...On Gulutzan It is not the right hire and it makes me angry that Hartley was fired and could possibly be replaced with this.

I will repeat my question above: based on your attraction to Rierden, what is it about Gulutzen that you dislike?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Yay, a 2nd round pick for us!

Originally Posted by Ashasx

nope

Originally Posted by Blaster86

They changed it on us .

ha!

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

It seems that over time this has become a Fanboy dominated site.

Anyone outside of the group think is to be attacked as haters... Not the concept presented but the individuals.

Ricardo, if your view of CP is so low, then it is probably time for you to move on.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I will repeat my question above: based on your attraction to Rierden, what is it about Gulutzen that you dislike?

I have been lurking on the thread but it is pretty clear that he does not like the track record of the new coach.

You seem intent on asking a question that has been answered.

Do you expect a different answer?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

When there were several candidates in the running, people argued about who they liked better. But it was pretty low-key.

Once a front-runner was announced, the pack closed ranks around him and that's where we got the mob mentality. The moment Gulutzan became 'our guy' it became disloyal to criticize him and dumb to second-guess the GM.

That's not even close to what happened.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Ricardo, if your view of CP is so low, then it is probably time for you to move on.

No it is just you.....(and a small group of internet bullies who are no worth standing up to) and I have moved on.

Come back from time to time to see if the dog-piling and bullying has lessened.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

It seems that over time this has become a Fanboy dominated site.

Anyone outside of the group think is to be attacked as haters... Not the concept presented but the individuals.

I disagree, I find there is a huge range of opinions on here...most of which are debated respectfully.

When concrete/emotional/outlandish statements are made and the author is unable to justify them with rationale thought, then it is not an issue of group think or ganging up, but a question of a poorly presented argument.

[EVERLAST]

It could be argued in many ways but at the end of the day it's the players on the ice execution of the systems in place and all of its other little nuances.

The meritocracy, the truculence and call it what you will.

The Penguins just won the cup with a team that had the talent yes but also with an incredible leader on the ice . Good support systems on the bench and management upstairs.

When we won the cup in 88/89 we had an incredible core of players who bought in. Terry Crisp was a good coach but he was no Badger Bob .....Cliff Fletcher did an amazing job back then bringing in those players.

Again it was the player's. Tim Hunter still talks about Badger Bob . ...but that team execution.wow.

I see the potential here is great with our players but we need a coach that sells something.

A GM that gets what we need to be successful.

All of its obvious but not really being talked about . I'm pretty sentimentAL about the 1986 , 1989 and 2004 teams and so excuse that. The players did what they knew they could do together.

We had that before last year with Bob calling the shots.

We're slowly getting there . I just want a coach that relates well and for BT to do his best getting us a goalie and more depth.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I have been lurking on the thread but it is pretty clear that he does not like the track record of the new coach.

You seem intent on asking a question that has been answered.

Do you expect a different answer?

Yes, I do because of this:

· Todd Reirden (<2-years head coaching experience) — AHL 2008–10 106 Games: 0.572 winning percentage, two playoff appearances, one win
· Greg Gulutzen (10-years head coaching experience) — AHL 2009–11 130 Games: 0.597 winning percentage, two playoff appearances, three wins

If he doesn't like Gulutzen's track record, then why on earth would he consider Reirden a better choice? It's fine if someone is unimpressed by Gulutzen's record, but under those conditions she or he also has no reason to think that Reirden is a better candidate.

[jaikorven]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

I disagree, I find there is a huge range of opinions on here...most of which are debated respectfully.

When concrete/emotional/outlandish statements are made and the author is unable to justify them with rationale thought, then it is not an issue of group think or ganging up, but a question of a poorly presented argument.

Or one possible step further...some just don't like when they are presented with debate on their own thoughts, as in they must be seen as right.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I have been lurking on the thread but it is pretty clear that he does not like the track record of the new coach.

You seem intent on asking a question that has been answered.

Do you expect a different answer?

The question, as it pertains to Rierden, has *not* been answered.