About 50 people killed at gay nightclub in Florida

[Machiavelli]

Looks like his wife knew he was planning it, and may be charged

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Looks like his wife knew he was planning it, and may be charged

edit: Nevermind, the dropping off the night of part may not be true.

NBC News said Salman told federal agents she tried to talk her husband out of carrying out the attack. But she also told the FBI she once drove him to the nightclub, Pulse, because he wanted to scope it out, the network said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-g...103227711.html

[pylon]

Wow. If true, it wouldn't shock me if the authorities pursued a death penalty.

[Resolute 14]

Yeah, that'll be 50 counts of accessory to murder then. Or, perhaps more accurately, "principal in the first degree" - which if my googling ability is right, can carry the same sentence as if she committed the crime herself. The death penalty seems a bit over the top given she didn't pull the trigger (though this is Florida...), but realistically, she's looking at life imprisonment.

[Mr.Coffee]

"Talk her husband out of it"???!!

At what point does the thought process go from 'I got this, I got this, I can convince this guy not to murder innocent people' to 'maybe I should contact the authorities now'...

"well officers I did my best, I mean I said don't do it! That guy's always been a bit stubborn though, you know how men can be sometimes amirite?!"

[CliffFletcher]

If he had abused or threatened her in the past, I'd be surprised if she does any time.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Yeah, that'll be 50 counts of accessory to murder then. Or, perhaps more accurately, "principal in the first degree" - which if my googling ability is right, can carry the same sentence as if she committed the crime herself. The death penalty seems a bit over the top given she didn't pull the trigger (though this is Florida...), but realistically, she's looking at life imprisonment.

If they determine it to be a terrorist attack, doesn't that change the rules? I believe it did in the Boston Marathon bombings.

[oldschoolcalgary]

not to sound crass, but this all reminds of the saying:

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

Americans have made their choice... after events like Sandy Hook, if you aren't going institute common sense gun control, well, these are simply the natural outcome of those decisions.

there's a reason why there's a thread on this forum called the "Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread"... its absolutely absurd and appalling at the same time...

that said, imo, Americans are complicit in every single one of these mass shootings because of their collective failure to act.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

not to sound crass, but this all reminds of the saying:

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

Americans have made their choice... after events like Sandy Hook, if you aren't going institute common sense gun control, well, these are simply the natural outcome of those decisions.

there's a reason why there's a thread on this forum called the "Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread"... its absolutely absurd and appalling at the same time...

that said, imo, Americans are complicit in every single one of these mass shootings because of their collective failure to act.

Absurd is the recent shooting in a graveyard in Rhode Island, an 80 year old man gunned down an 82 year old man before being killed by police after a car chase.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Absurd is the recent shooting in a graveyard in Rhode Island, an 80 year old man gunned down an 82 year old man before being killed by police after a car chase.

Gotta be an Onion headline!?

No words for that one

[calgaryblood]

Has anyone mentioned the fathers comments on how he said he wished his son wasn't born and that he did everything possible to make him turn out to be a good kid but he turned out to be a terrorist? Pretty strong words from the father and not exactly what has bee. Portrayed in the media the last few days.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Gotta be an Onion headline!?

No words for that one

Nope Guardian UK. I'm picturing Mr Magoo with an AR15 driving away from the scene of the crime at 20 miles an hour.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

not to sound crass, but this all reminds of the saying:

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

Americans have made their choice... after events like Sandy Hook, if you aren't going institute common sense gun control, well, these are simply the natural outcome of those decisions.

there's a reason why there's a thread on this forum called the "Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread"... its absolutely absurd and appalling at the same time...

that said, imo, Americans are complicit in every single one of these mass shootings because of their collective failure to act.

The NRA and the Republicans (a minority of Americans) have made that choice for everyone. Millions of Americans including, most likely, most of the people in that club, are in no way complicit.

Though I guess I should have known when you started your post "not to sound crass" that that's exactly what you were about to do.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Yeah, that'll be 50 counts of accessory to murder then. Or, perhaps more accurately, "principal in the first degree" - which if my googling ability is right, can carry the same sentence as if she committed the crime herself. The death penalty seems a bit over the top given she didn't pull the trigger (though this is Florida...), but realistically, she's looking at life imprisonment.

It would be 49 counts, wouldn't it? The ####### was #50. His death is his own ####.

[MRCboicgy]

Sadly the death toll could rise by four or five that are still touchy (or at least were last night on the news).

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by pylon

Wow. If true, it wouldn't shock me if the authorities pursued a death penalty.

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Yeah, that'll be 50 counts of accessory to murder then. Or, perhaps more accurately, "principal in the first degree" - which if my googling ability is right, can carry the same sentence as if she committed the crime herself. The death penalty seems a bit over the top given she didn't pull the trigger (though this is Florida...), but realistically, she's looking at life imprisonment.

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

"Talk her husband out of it"???!!

At what point does the thought process go from 'I got this, I got this, I can convince this guy not to murder innocent people' to 'maybe I should contact the authorities now'...

"well officers I did my best, I mean I said don't do it! That guy's always been a bit stubborn though, you know how men can be sometimes amirite?!"

I wouldn't be surprised if the wife is charged---the "government" has to show that they are taking "terrorism" or "hate crimes" or "self-loathing" (or whatever term of art they want to use today) seriously and, of course, who doesn't like to watch a scapegoat get slaughtered and what DA doesn't want to burnish their resume and flex for the people?

But, let's be honest here: The "government" (i.e., the same one, by and large, that is conducting the investigation now and will likely be bringing charges against the wife later) already conducted at least two investigations on the guy, and came up with nothing. Nothing to keep him from procuring firearms legally. Nothing to keep him from researching his location(s) of choice. Nothing to keep him from doing what he did.

In short, the "government," even after being tipped off by others on two separate previous occasions, didn't do a blasted thing to stop the guy.

So if I were on the jury (and I wouldn't be, as I am not a Florida resident), and the wife were on trial, I wouldn't convict her of anything. At least, not based on what information I know now.

Because, quite frankly, had she gone to the "government," the "government," just like in the previous two times, wouldn't have done a blasted thing either.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by gargamel

The NRA and the Republicans (a minority of Americans) have made that choice for everyone. Millions of Americans including, most likely, most of the people in that club, are in no way complicit.

Though I guess I should have known when you started your post "not to sound crass" that that's exactly what you were about to do.

I could have sworn the US is a democracy?

Yes, the NRA, GOP and yes even some democrats, have been unwilling to compromise on common sense gun control.

However, if the majority wants to push through gun control, they could...

The use of the term 'Americans" was simply used as an overarching statement...I am sure you can breakdown that number on race, gender region too - that doesn't change the fact that Americans love their guns and haven't put forward enough pressure to change things

[PsYcNeT]

This is one of my favorite excerpts from Michael Shermer's most recent book The Moral Arc, and they republished it again today in the wake of the attacks:

http://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/myths-of-terrorism/

Salient points that sadly will not be acknowledged by many in the US.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Has anyone mentioned the fathers comments on how he said he wished his son wasn't born and that he did everything possible to make him turn out to be a good kid but he turned out to be a terrorist? Pretty strong words from the father and not exactly what has bee. Portrayed in the media the last few days.

there's lots of things floating around about the father, but if you look at his views and the fact that he's basically declared himself as the President of Afghanistan, I'm not sure if the crazy apple fell too far from the crazy team.

But he's under investigation because of some suspicious bank account activity.

At the end of the day, its very easy to blame the country itself, and it would be right to do so, because of easy access to guns, and nobody being willing to challenge the 2nd amendment (automatic election loss for the person that does), and the effectiveness of groups like the NRA, they are absolutely at fault for giving these people the tools of the trade to carry out the killing.

but in all of our righteous anger we have to remember that the person that's most at fault is the shooter himself.

from reading up on the active investigation, it does sound like he was investigated for suspicious activity and the Feds even tried to get an informant close to him, but he was cleared, so in the view of the current laws of the states he was able to go out and buy guns because being under investigation and cleared isn't the same as being on a terrorist watch list. So in this case, competency withstanding the system in place did work.

If the wife knew he was conflicted and talking about committing an act of Jihad or a mass killing and she did nothing to call attention to it, except try to talk him out of it then she's just as guilty as he is, and she's as much of a killer as he is. At some point if you know something is going on and you do nothing then you might as well have been pulling the trigger.

the really weird stuff around this are the reports going around about the shooters lifestyle. Going to gay clubs and hitting on men, going to social media and setting up meetings, yet he had a father who was very anti-homosexual, and he was living the life of a lie. So how much of this was about a religious stance, and how much of this was a man's rage about not being able to live the life he wanted, and becoming very easy to recruit.

Its almost like the typical movie scenario where the class bully beats everyone up and it turns out that he's gay and doing the bullying to hide that fact from his classmates and his white bread parents.

This whole thing is so messed up on so many levels, and so different from your typical simple religion made him do it. But at the end of the day, his lifestyle, his life of lies, and his rage made him an easy target for radicalization, not because he wanted to fight for some twisted religious group or kill gays for god, but because he was looking for an outlet for his rage and denial.

[Flamenspiel]

Seems to be a bi-partisan effort brewing to reject gun applications from people on the "no-fly" and/or "terrorism watch" lists. That would certainly be a step forward, apparently they are just haggling over which restricted watch lists to include.