CalgaryNEXT Discussion pt. 2

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by New Era

Point being, who the #### wants to walk a block and wait on a freezing platform in -20 temperatures? Unless you like icy sidewalks weaving through traffic coming out of the arena, I prefer the facility to be right on the line.

How is that any different in West Village? You still have to walk to the C-Train stations, and unless you're going to the NE or West, you're still going to be waiting outside. And with WV, you're not even going to be connected to the Green line, so those people have to transfer or find another way no matter what.

The West Village site would also has less parking available, and is farther away from the dense-residential clusters of the East Village, Victoria Park and east Beltline (as well as sizable communities in Bridgeland, Inglewood and Ramsay), so less people have access to walk.

When is the green line suppose to start being built? I could see that being a possibility, but there is a bunch of land that would have to be bough up as well, because the land that is currently vacant isn't big enough for a new arena. They would have to buy the land between 11th and 12th avenues then close 11th and use all of that space. Not sure that is any more viable than the west village.

Even if all of this was an issue (and the sizing issue is only relevant if you want to build both stadium and arena), it is still infinitely less complicated, and less expensive for Calgarians, than what needs to be done in the West Village.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Or a handicapped person. Or an old person. Or a person with serious health problems.

But hey, thanks for throwing all those people under the bus. They weren't about to throw themselves, after all.

So you're saying none of those groups currently go to the Saddledome because they might have to be in the cold to go from the train to the arena? And that they'd definitely go to CalgaryNEXT with its setup? Yeah I think not. And if they don't take transit, they drive so it won't matter slightly in a new arena.

Originally Posted by New Era

Is that the best you got Senator? Pretty ####ing the weak. Also pretty myopic. Given a choice you would rather walk through the cold and freeze your ass off instead of having a refreshing brew while waiting for the train, then boarding without going outside for more than 20 seconds? If you say you choose the former, you're a liar. I don't know anyone that would take that choice.

What you basically suggested was no one should ever take transit because, well, they might have to walk in the cold. Everyone should prefer driving. Bizarre argument, but then again you have consistently made poor arguments as the staunchest defender of this project.

The facility being on-line argument is also poor because CalgaryNEXT would be no different than the Dome. Train isn't running under the building so people never have to go outside. People are still going to have to go outside, like it or not. Besides the walk from transit to the Dome is half inside, half on a protected awning and it's a 90 second walk at most in the outdoors. You're making it seem like it's from the University Station to Mac Hall which is quite long. You basically want a perfect, flawless arena project. Hope you're ready to be crushed in that regard.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by New Era

I don't see how plan B isn't a failure before it even starts. Foothills is a terrible spot for the field house. Unless things have changed dramatically in the last few years, the access and parking situation would be a nightmare. Using Norma Bush and Father David Bauer was a gong show when I lived in Calgary. Foothills Athletic park was worse. Putting a big facility there would be a mistake. Also, dropping it in one corner of the city is going to going to make accessibility difficult for the rest. A central location is more desirable IMO, especially if it is on the LRT line.

The plan from the city's plan calls for there to be underground parking available for the site. If the fieldhouse is just built as an amateur athletics facility, it should have enough parking spaces available. Plus McMahon Stadium would have an abundance of spots available also.

In fact, there would be more parking available there than what CSEC has envision for CalgaryNEXT.

I also believe that the foothills park is still fairly central citywise. It's only several minutes away from downtown, and it adjacent to Banff Trail LRT station. Accessibility is sufficient enough.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Joborule

I also believe that the foothills park is still fairly central citywise. It's only several minutes away from downtown, and it adjacent to Banff Trail LRT station. Accessibility is sufficient enough.

On a weekday try heading up there from the south on Crowfoot any time between 3:00 and 6:30 p.m. and you may change your tune as it's the worst bottleneck in the city.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

On a weekday try heading up there from the south on Crowfoot any time between 3:00 and 6:30 p.m. and you may change your tune as it's the worst bottleneck in the city.

Strawman since that's a congestion problem in general that needs to be fixed by the city. Doesn't change the fact that the foothills athletic park is in the inner city and easily accessible from any part of the city.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Strawman since that's a congestion problem in general that needs to be fixed by the city. Doesn't change the fact that the foothills athletic park is in the inner city and easily accessible from any part of the city.

Strawman the anti-CalgaryNEXT sentiment sited that as a negative because it would necessitate the city resolving that problem and it's an expensive fix. Doesn't change the fact that it's an extremely long trek from southern communities especially with the "congestion problem".

[Table 5]

Is there any part of town that's easily accessible during rush-hour by people from all sectors of Calgary?

[jesters91]

From my house in the SW it took 46 minutes to get to McMahon Stadium for last Saturday's 7:00 PM start. Not a weekday or rush hour. Just sayin'

[heep223]

Originally Posted by jesters91

From my house in the SW it took 46 minutes to get to McMahon Stadium for last Saturday's 7:00 PM start. Not a weekday or rush hour. Just sayin'

There was a stall/breakdown that clogged everything up. Not a regular occurrence.

[Joborule]

Not to mention that the amount of time added to get from West Village to McMahon would be ~5 extra minutes during rush hour if you're coming up Crowchild from the south.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Is there any part of town that's easily accessible during rush-hour by people from all sectors of Calgary?

Airdrie.

[Stay Golden]

For Stamps games I live in the NW so it is a breeze. The Saddledome still not too bad. But everyime I think would I be up in arms and not renew tickets if the Arena was built in the deep south. I am reminded by the customers I have in Sundre, Olds, Didsbury that are also long time ST holders. Just the same I know of ST holders in Nanton, High River, Okotoks.
They manage.
I know an Arena on outskirts somewhere near Stony Trail is not popular due to travel time. But if it was the choice I wouldn't complain about it.
If there was enough land, uncontaminated land that was central. Then great but there isn't unless the Flames buy up enough real-estate.
Fort Calgary btw i don't believe(?) Is not nearly enough space.

[monkeyman]

So its a better idea to build 2 major buildings right on the corner of said bottleneck? its a terrible location and a terrible design. The only reason the flames and anyone else would want this abomination of a facility is to stroke their ego and line their pockets because if you look at from a useability standpoint... It leaves a lot to be desired.

[jesters91]

Originally Posted by heep223

There was a stall/breakdown that clogged everything up. Not a regular occurrence.

I didn't see any stalled vehicles though not saying it didn't happen. The issue is traffic is always backed up on Crowchild no mater what time the game is at.

Anderson to 14th to Glenmore to Crowchild up to McMahon averages about 40 minutes for my game day commutes.

[jesters91]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Not to mention that the amount of time added to get from West Village to McMahon would be ~5 extra minutes during rush hour if you're coming up Crowchild from the south.

I am not arguing the distance between WV to McMahon but more about those who claim McMahon is central for all quadrants of the city should try commuting from the south end of the city.

Bottom line is there are a number of supposed major arteries in our fair city that bottleneck and as a result frustrate those who drive 'em. I'm so glad I don't have to take south DF home from work anymore.

[Stay Golden]

I think that any area that is too far South or too far North in the city or too close to major bottlenecks is going to be met with levels of opposition.
There is plenty of viable space near Cross Iron but God forbid that is mentioned.
Depending on who one Flames fan talks to another they prefer what's right for them.
The Flames have to decide where do we have enough land available. Not contaminated BS. They are not going to please everyone in the South or the North.
So either plan B near McMahon or on Stampede land or on the outskirts. But get this going enough talk.

[bob-loblaw]

Not sure if this has been posted before but here's a link to an article about the new arena for the Sacramento Kings. Rogers Arena in Edmonton already sounds outdated when you read about this one - http://www.wired.com/2016/06/highest...lt-like-tesla/.

[calgaryrocks]

that sounds amazing

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by calgaryrocks

that sounds amazing

Yes, but it does it boast the largest "Fully HD and Center Hung" scoreboard in North America?

No, I thought not.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Wasn't poking the bear at all, just hadn't done my research and seen your earlier post. I always worry that when I ask questions I'll come off like I'm actually challenging, so I assure you I'm honestly trying to get your point on this.

Is your point that you feel like Flames aren't taking into account that they would be forcing the clean up earlier than the City would otherwise do it (which I agree and feel is a huge roadblock to the Flames proposal), and because the discount rate of money (whatever it might be, understood you are using 5%) that this represents an increase in cost for the city?

Sorry, a little delayed in responding. You are spot on.