What is the most you would give up for 3rd OA?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I feel the risk of going to artibtration outweighs the reward of potentially keeping him around. The cap is not going up, Gaudreau and Monahan are more important, and we're right up against the cap once the more important deals are done plus a goalie.

and a top 6 of

Gaudreau- Monahan-?
?-Backlund-Frolik

will give us a good chance in next years lottery.

Missing Goals pts from last year's weak roster -- Colborne 19- 44, Hudler 10-35 Jones 9- 15

Total of 38 goals..... 94 pts... Where do these extra points come from? Shinkaruk/Jankowski/Pribyl? Bennett 10 more goals? Bouma?

I sincerely doubt that the new coach/system is going to get as much scoring from the defence.

[polak]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I dunno. I can't see giving Colborne away for zero return. If it goes down that way, it plays out as a combination of moves that culminates in brutal asset management, no?

Not when there's arbitration involved.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

...If Backlund is getting paid more than 3-4M (at his current level) that team will not be a playoff contender. Support players Like Backlund and Frolik can not be making 2/3 of what all stars are getting paid.

This is just simply untrue. While no team wants to find themselves committed to more than two or three of these market-value deals for important secondary pieces, teams do in fact regularly win with them in place and playing significant supporting roles. Karl Hagelin and Chris Kunitz are "support players" both making upwards of $3.5 m, and today they are Stanley Cup champions. The Penguins got great value for Olli Maata and Nick Bonino, but they only drafted one of these guys. The point here being that if the Flames are yet two or three years away from being a legitimate Cup-contending team, there is still ample time and room to make changes through trades and drafts that can potentially provide them with a few needed "value contracts."

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

and a top 6 of

Gaudreau- Monahan-?
?-Backlund-Frolik

will give us a good chance in next years lottery.

Missing Goals pts from last year's weak roster -- Colborne 19- 44, Hudler 10-35 Jones 9- 15

Total of 38 goals..... 94 pts... Where do these extra points come from? Shinkaruk/Jankowski/Pribyl? Bennett 10 more goals? Bouma?

I sincerely doubt that the new coach/system is going to get as much scoring from the defence.

The Flames' greatest concerns heading into the new season are not scoring, they are reducing goals-against. The reason the Flames finished in 26th had primarily to do with the fact that their goaltending and penalty killing were awful, and management is taking active steps toward correcting that issue. So long as the Flames' special teams are average and they get good goaltending, they will not finish anywhere near a lottery pick—even with minimal changes among forwards.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

This is just simply untrue. While no team wants to find themselves committed to more than two or three of these market-value deals for important secondary pieces, teams do in fact regularly win with them in place and playing significant supporting roles. Karl Hagelin and Chris Kunitz are "support players" both making upwards of $3.5 m, and today they are Stanley Cup champions. The Penguins got great value for Olli Maata and Nick Bonino, but they only drafted one of these guys. The point here being that if the Flames are yet two or three years away from being a legitimate Cup-contending team, there is still ample time and room to make changes through trades and drafts that can potentially provide them with a few needed "value contracts."

You are comparing Kunitz to Backlund??

On the Flames Kunitz would not be a support player.

The 3 years before he signed his 3.8 x 3 deal he was coming off 61, 52 in 48 games season and 68 pt seasons.

Right now Backlund is getting paid 275k less than Kunitz... Backlund need to jump from 47 to 60 pts in his next 2 season just to make this current contract a value contract when compared to Kunitz.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The Flames' greatest concerns heading into the new season are not scoring, they are reducing goals-against. The reason the Flames finished in 26th had primarily to do with the fact that their goaltending and penalty killing were awful, and management is taking active steps toward correcting that issue. So long as the Flames' special teams are average and they get good goaltending, they will not finish anywhere near a lottery pick—even with minimal changes among forwards.

Yep... but if the Flames manage to replace just half of these 38 goals. they will drop to around 212 goals around 20th in goal scoring..... they will have to be playing some great defensive hockey to make the playoffs scoring 212 goals...

Detroit 211 was the only playoff team with less than 212 goals.


What active steps are they taking to fix the PK?

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Yep... but if the Flames manage to replace just half of these 38 goals. they will drop to around 212 goals around 20th in goal scoring..... they will have to be playing some great defensive hockey to make the playoffs scoring 212 goals...

Detroit 211 was the only playoff team with less than 212 goals.


What active steps are they taking to fix the PK?

Hiring a new coach? Acquiring at least one new goalie?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

You are comparing Kunitz to Backlund??...

No, I'm not. (At least, I am not directly.) I am making the comparison between Kunitz's and Hagelin's current role on the Penguins team and the future role of players like Backlund or Frolik on a championship calibre Flames team relative to their earned salary.

The point of my post—which you predictably missed—was to show that now is not the time to panic about salary structure vs. performance for this team, which is CLEARLY still a work in progress, and NOT a finished product.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

and a top 6 of

Gaudreau- Monahan-?
?-Backlund-Frolik

will give us a good chance in next years lottery.

Missing Goals pts from last year's weak roster -- Colborne 19- 44, Hudler 10-35 Jones 9- 15

Total of 38 goals..... 94 pts... Where do these extra points come from? Shinkaruk/Jankowski/Pribyl? Bennett 10 more goals? Bouma?

I sincerely doubt that the new coach/system is going to get as much scoring from the defence.

Yes, I would anticipate that a rebuilding team would expect that some of their younger assets like the ones you listed (for example Bennett) would start to replace the offence from discarded aging declining assets like Hudler and Jones. It's litterally the point of a rebuild.

Colborne is an interesting one, he still fits the mold of the rebuild, but if you worry he'll be overpaid, you may have to take a mini step back to avoid being prevented from taking large steps forward down the road because his contract becomes an anchor. That said, what's the biggest risk on arbitration with him, that he gets awarded a rich one year deal, or are multi year deals at play, I can't remember.

[EldrickOnIce]

^ as Colborne filed for arbitration, the Flames can walk away from an award above (not sure of exact number) somewhere over 3.5M/year.
I do not know who/how term is decided (1 or 2 years).