Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > The Off Topic Forum
Register Forum Rules FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-13-2016, 09:39 AM   #261
PepsiFree
Participant
Participant
 
PepsiFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
Fantastic article on what is being discussed here by Neil McDonald. I was going to quote sections, but all of it is on point.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/orla...631994?cmp=rss

Thank you for posting that. I will quote the end of it because it says something extremely important. By engaging in what you think is harmless discrimination, you're contributing to a society that gives extremists the fuel to murder innocent people. In this case, based on their orientation.

Quote:
If casual misogyny and sexist humour helped create Marc Lépine, then organized religion must reflect on helping shape a culture that will this week have led to 50 funerals in Florida. It's not just the extremists who want to deprive gays of human rights.

People of faith might ask themselves this: even if they've never so much as lifted a hand to a gay person, have they smiled at a homophobic joke? Or overlooked mistreatment? Or nodded during an anti-gay sermon?

And if so, wouldn't this be a good time to speak up?
PepsiFree is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to PepsiFree For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2016, 09:58 AM   #262
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Pickle Jar Lake
Exp:
Default

It's one of those cases where if you are not actively refuting what you religion says(such as in the bible) then you are supporting it. They need to denounce those passages, but the problem is if you start picking and choosing, it weakens the religion. But it must be done.
Fuzz is online now  
Old 06-13-2016, 09:58 AM   #263
peter12
Franchise Player
 
peter12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Exp:
Default

A much better article from National Post's Jen Gerson:

Quote:
The broader issue is this: in a culture so numb to violence that, despite this shooting’s awful and novel political permutations, we’ve all run out of original things to say. So each side will retreat to its respective civic echo chamber, abandoning any common ground beyond common tragedy.
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...t-of-hot-takes
peter12 is offline  
Old 06-13-2016, 10:01 AM   #264
peter12
Franchise Player
 
peter12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Exp:
Default

And another superior article.

Quote:
What even a cursory glance of the nation’s LGBT history suggests, in short, is that the style of homophobic violence perpetuated in Orlando is something horrifyingly exotic to the American experience. It is not consistent with some preexisting tradition of “hate.” It does not remind us “how far we have yet to go,” the need for “solidarity,” or any other hoary cliche of the gay rights establishment. What it illustrates, in the blood of 100 victims, is the degree western gays have endangered themselves by supporting politicians and activists who welcome foreign proponents of the world’s most radically homicidal strain of gay-hate into our communities.
http://princearthurherald.com/en/pol...s-spectrum-076
peter12 is offline  
Old 06-13-2016, 10:04 AM   #265
peter12
Franchise Player
 
peter12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
Thank you for posting that. I will quote the end of it because it says something extremely important. By engaging in what you think is harmless discrimination, you're contributing to a society that gives extremists the fuel to murder innocent people. In this case, based on their orientation.
I don't like the tone of this article at all.
To go this far in the other way, and draw such shaky allusions between everyday homophoba or sexism, and like mass murder is bad enough, but at what point do you use such shaky reasoning to brand all political opposition to your policy goals as hate-filled homophobia?

You can have a principled position against SSM, and not have an ounce of homophobia in you.
peter12 is offline  
Old 06-13-2016, 10:11 AM   #266
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Pickle Jar Lake
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter12 View Post
I don't like the tone of this article at all.
To go this far in the other way, and draw such shaky allusions between everyday homophoba or sexism, and like mass murder is bad enough, but at what point do you use such shaky reasoning to brand all political opposition to your policy goals as hate-filled homophobia?

You can have a principled position against SSM, and not have an ounce of homophobia in you.
No, you can't. There is no principle you can hold that puts your position against the rights of others when granting those rights does no harm to you.
Fuzz is online now  
Old 06-13-2016, 10:16 AM   #267
nik-
Franchise Player
 
nik-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Exp:
Default

you're walking into the trap
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji View Post
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
nik- is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to nik- For This Useful Post:
sun
Old 06-13-2016, 10:17 AM   #268
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Pickle Jar Lake
Exp:
Default

Ooops, right. Better go back to yard work.
Fuzz is online now  
Old 06-13-2016, 10:17 AM   #269
peter12
Franchise Player
 
peter12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
No, you can't. There is no principle you can hold that puts your position against the rights of others when granting those rights does no harm to you.
Of course you can. And you don't even have to be a white republican Christian to make your case well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tr...ical_reception

As Michael Warner, a very queer-positive writer, states very eloquently, the SSM debate as done a lot to damage the sexual autonomy of gays and lesbians by basically making them out to be bourgeois homosexuals.

One could even argue quite effectively that it has been a massive shaming perpetuated by the gay movement against itself.

The history of the gay movement in America is fascinating, and actually quite inspiring.

If anyone is interested, I would highly recommend reading about how the community dealt with the AIDS crisis. Truly courageous, and manly action was taken on behalf of the community for itself while being left virtually on its own, and indeed, often as a scapegoat by the American government.
peter12 is offline  
Old 06-13-2016, 10:19 AM   #270
peter12
Franchise Player
 
peter12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik- View Post
you're walking into the trap
It's actually an interesting discussion to have given the circumstances. The gay movement is in fact probably more marginalized from the public eye then it has ever been. Most people don't know how to relate to LGBT beyond hetero-normativity or bland politically-correct stereotypes. As I was trying to say, this is a community that has been through a lot - a plague in fact, and victimizing them doesn't do them a single favour.
peter12 is offline  
Old 06-13-2016, 10:21 AM   #271
nik-
Franchise Player
 
nik-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Exp:
Default

No it's not, and no one wants to have it with you.

You're fishing, so just stop.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji View Post
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
nik- is offline  
Old 06-13-2016, 10:22 AM   #272
peter12
Franchise Player
 
peter12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik- View Post
No it's not, and no one wants to have it with you.

You're fishing, so just stop.
Or we could go back to the same old tired argument about how much of religion we can blame, how much of sacred texts need to be redacted, and which groups need to come out with tailored apologies.

Come on, man. Just admit you aren't that interesting.
peter12 is offline  
Old 06-13-2016, 10:25 AM   #273
Senator Clay Davis
Franchise Player
 
Senator Clay Davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik- View Post
No it's not, and no one wants to have it with you.

You're fishing, so just stop.
If I remember correctly I'm pretty sure pete straight up admitted recently his skills have been slipping big time. This thread sort of showcases that.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
Senator Clay Davis is offline  
Old 06-13-2016, 10:25 AM   #274
Teh_Bandwagoner
First Line Centre
 
Teh_Bandwagoner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: The wagon's name is "Gaudreau"
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee View Post
I'm just curious if it's getting any worse or better, or if the media is skewing what's happening.
Who knows. Sometimes I try to picture these types of people as dying breeds, making themselves known in a fight-or-flight scenario. They're threatened so they show their teeth, even though they're probably done for.

But I'm probably just being optimistic.
__________________
Teh_Bandwagoner is offline  
Old 06-13-2016, 10:26 AM   #275
OMG!WTF!
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter12 View Post
Of course you can. And you don't even have to be a white republican Christian to make your case well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tr...ical_reception

As Michael Warner, a very queer-positive writer, states very eloquently, the SSM debate as done a lot to damage the sexual autonomy of gays and lesbians by basically making them out to be bourgeois homosexuals.
That book really does seem like the Uncle Tom's Cabin of the lgbt rights movement.
OMG!WTF! is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to OMG!WTF! For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2016, 10:49 AM   #276
MRCboicgy
Referee
 
MRCboicgy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In your enterprise AI
Exp:
Default

Or...

Call me crazy here:

We could get back to the original topic of this thread and the news around it.
__________________
You’re just old hate balls.
--Funniest mod complaint in CP history.
MRCboicgy is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to MRCboicgy For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2016, 11:17 AM   #277
sun
#1 Goaltender
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Not cheering for losses
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter12 View Post
Or we could go back to the same old tired argument about how much of religion we can blame, how much of sacred texts need to be redacted, and which groups need to come out with tailored apologies.

Come on, man. Just admit you aren't that interesting.
Go find some interesting people to talk at then.
sun is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to sun For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2016, 11:32 AM   #278
DoubleF
Franchise Player
 
DoubleF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Exp:
Default

Sigh... What horrible news.
DoubleF is offline  
Old 06-13-2016, 11:54 AM   #279
PsYcNeT
Franchise Player
 
PsYcNeT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Marseilles Of The Prairies
Exp:
Default

Savage.

Quote:
Concerned NRA Official Rushes Out To Purchase Congressman Following Mass Shooting
http://www.theonion.com/article/conc...-congres-53084
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm View Post
Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
PsYcNeT is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to PsYcNeT For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2016, 12:25 PM   #280
GirlySports
NOT breaking news
 
GirlySports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
Thank you for posting that. I will quote the end of it because it says something extremely important. By engaging in what you think is harmless discrimination, you're contributing to a society that gives extremists the fuel to murder innocent people. In this case, based on their orientation.
This is an enormous strawman though. Christians and Muslims are always condemning violent actions done in the name of religion. The problem is that they take the stance that these people are not true Christians and Muslims and have somehow misinterpreted their holy books. That conversation is useless. Once you grant someone the idea that their deity exists and that it's morally virtuous to believe in it and adhere to the commands of these holy books, you don't get to tell them what parts they should accept and reject.

Once someone tells me their actions are divinely-mandated, the conversation is over. Who am I to pontificate upon the character of a deity that I don't even think exists? All that you can do is try to convince them to ground their beliefs in what they can prove logically.

Even if they are truly evil and are just using religion as a crutch to justify their actions, granting them the idea that ancient text is the best way to figure out how we should behave is throwing them the only lifeline they'll ever need.

The good guys and the bad guys are using the same book.
__________________
Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire


Last edited by GirlySports; 06-13-2016 at 12:27 PM.
GirlySports is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to GirlySports For This Useful Post:
Closed Thread


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:17 AM.

Calgary Flames
2024-25




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021 | See Our Privacy Policy