About 50 people killed at gay nightclub in Florida

[djsFlames]

Disgusted.

[Max Cow Disease]

The gun situation in the US is obviously silly at this point, but if you could vanquish every bad, hateful idea in the world you'd save far more lives than if you vanquished every firearm. Obviously that's not possible, but it serves the point that the guns in this are really just a further enabler of the act. The act itself is born of incredibly antiquated and toxic ideas about the world.

Dangerous beliefs can sprout from a lot of places- psychopathy, depression, societal unrest, etc., but 2000 year old dogma is also an excellent candidate and starting point.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Max Cow Disease

The gun situation in the US is obviously silly at this point, but if you could vanquish every bad, hateful idea in the world you'd save far more lives than if you vanquished every firearm. Obviously that's not possible, but it serves the point that the guns in this are really just a further enabler of the act. The act itself is born of incredibly antiquated and toxic ideas about the world.

Dangerous beliefs can sprout from a lot of places- psychopathy, depression, societal unrest, etc., but 2000 year old dogma is also an excellent candidate and starting point.

The bolded is very important, ironically it's gun defenders that usually state it in an attempt to minimize the gun aspect of mass shootings.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Max Cow Disease

Dangerous beliefs can sprout from a lot of places- psychopathy, depression, societal unrest, etc., but 2000 year old dogma is also an excellent candidate and starting point.

I mean, let's be fair, it's only 1300ish years old.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by jayswin

The bolded is very important, ironically it's gun defenders that usually state it in an attempt to minimize the gun aspect of mass shootings.

Because even if guns got banned there are still easily accessible weapons. The terrorists in Iraq were able to destroy US military assets with $5 worth of ingredients, billions of dollars spent to combat IEDs that cost nearly nothing to make.

Cut off one head and another will emerge, if the motivation and impetus is not removed the methodologies will if forced to. It's not about minimizing the impact of guns one bit, it's about correctly identifying all of the independent variables.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The shooter was apparently on a terrorist watchlist. @igorvolsky on Twitter has been haranguing every US Senator who took money from the NRA and voted down a bill that would have banned people on the terrorist watchlist from owning firearms.

Yup, America is so effed up that its own government is letting people it fears will kill people have the tools to do just that.

Also, this: http://www.chron.com/news/article/Te...at-8076147.php

Reminds of the speech where Obama pointed out that you can be on the 'no fly list' and the NRA still wants you to have the right to buy arms.

That is a special kind of greed I tell you

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Because even if guns got banned there are still easily accessible weapons. The terrorists in Iraq were able to destroy US military assets with $5 worth of ingredients, billions of dollars spent to combat IEDs that cost nearly nothing to make.

Cut off one head and another will emerge, if the motivation and impetus is not removed the methodologies will if forced to. It's not about minimizing the impact of guns one bit, it's about correctly identifying all of the independent variables.

Don't be obtuse, ISIS in Iraq was using left over munitions and their IED's were being built by ex Iraqi army munitions experts.

There aren't unexplored cluster bombs scattered around the U.S.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Because even if guns got banned there are still easily accessible weapons. The terrorists in Iraq were able to destroy US military assets with $5 worth of ingredients, billions of dollars spent to combat IEDs that cost nearly nothing to make.

Cut off one head and another will emerge, if the motivation and impetus is not removed the methodologies will if forced to. It's not about minimizing the impact of guns one bit, it's about correctly identifying all of the independent variables.

All of that sounds great, except we DO explore every other narrative in GREAT detail, ESPECIALLY religion, to the point where a country of 340 million people is having actual discussion of banning an entire segment of human population from their country.

Guns are the sacred cow in mass shooting discussions in the States. You know that. Everyone gets around it with "well, they're not the only problem and man would it be difficult to deal with, so let's just move back to the easier solution of fixing religion!!!".

Geez, you made me type like Springs1.

[jschick88]

No words.

Bret Baier ‏@BretBaier
ATF agent says Omar Mateen purchased 2 guns-a "hand gun & long gun" in past wk-legally. Even though there'd been 2 FBI investigations of him

[Flash Walken]

The gun situation in the united states is an indication it is a failing (failed) state.

It's just part of the laundry list of attributes you'd normally ascribe to somewhere in north africa or latin america.

[AcGold]

Let's get one thing straight. Did I at any point advocate for gun ownership?

My personal stance against guns has nothing to do with the fact that guns clearly are not the main issue. Anyone can procure a weapon if so inclined, banning one weapon while turning a blind eye to several fundamental issues seems shortsighted.

You think banning guns would do anything to stop terrorists? I don't. If you want to spend energy in that direction feel free but I see it as misplaced outrage.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by AcGold

You think banning guns would do anything to stop terrorists?

I think it would make it more difficult to pull something like this off, yes.

[JiriHrdina]

So if a nation bans guns that means that is the ONLY thing they can do? Is anyone saying that the U.S. should put greater restrictions on guns and then pat their backs on a job well done pretend there are no other issues?

[Azure]

The ATF has said he purchased the guns in the last two weeks and was able to do so despite having been investigated by the FBI twice. I'm sure we all agree that being able to do that is nothing short of insane.

Politics. Gotta love it.

[burn_this_city]

Bought Congress will never legislate against max profits for the gun industry.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Let's get one thing straight. Did I at any point advocate for gun ownership?

My personal stance against guns has nothing to do with the fact that guns clearly are not the main issue. Anyone can procure a weapon if so inclined, banning one weapon while turning a blind eye to several fundamental issues seems shortsighted.

You think banning guns would do anything to stop terrorists? I don't. If you want to spend energy in that direction feel free but I see it as misplaced outrage.

I'm not sure I'm clear on your position then. You and others always try to silence gun discussion with the same rhetoric "There's other things, dealing with the gun issue won't make the problem go away, why isn't anyone talking about X!!".

Everyone is talking about X....and Y......and Z. Guns are a big part of that discussion, though. Most talk about X Y and Z with an emphasis on Z and then you guys come along and say "We need to talk about X and Y, get Z outta here, you're dreaming if you think dealing with Z in any capacity will ever change anything!".

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I'm not sure I'm clear on your position then. You and others always try to silence gun discussion with the same rhetoric "There's other things, dealing with the gun issue won't make the problem go away, why isn't anyone talking about X!!".

Everyone is talking about X....and Y......and Z. Guns are a big part of that discussion, though. Most talk about X Y and Z with an emphasis on Z and then you guys come along and say "We need to talk about X and Y, get Z outta here, you're dreaming if you think dealing with Z in any capacity will ever change anything!".

My position is this is a such a complex topic with vested interests on both sides of the political fence. Simple resolutions are rarely found in situations with multiple confounding variables.

This event ties in with ISIS, radical Islam, gun control and the gay rights movement. Isolating the primary factor as guns seems vastly incorrect when a weapon of lesser monetary value can do equal or greater harm. Everyone wants to key in on guns as the prime factor here and I see it as one small subset of issues in a radically complex global climate. Do I advocate guns? No, but I also don't really care when the methods of destruction are not limited to guns.

We've seen terrorism via planes, bombs, pressure cookers, cyber attacks. Cut off one head another will surely emerge.

[JiriHrdina]

The point is make it HARDER for people do this stuff. How on earth do you not get that?

[Swift]

No matter how hate filled or ideological a guy is, he's not killing 50 people and injuring 50 more with a knife.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Azure

The ATF has said he purchased the guns in the last two weeks and was able to do so despite having been investigated by the FBI twice. I'm sure we all agree that being able to do that is nothing short of insane.

Politics. Gotta love it.

Right after the San Bernardino shooting there was a measure to ban people on the FBI watchlist from buying guns. Predictably it failed. God Bless America.