What is a fair Joe Colborne contract?

[The Yen Man]

I don't mind Colborne on the team if the price is right. I think $3M would be good. He's also our best shootout player, and with parity what it is in the league, those could be valuable points that Colborne wins for you.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I still think he will sign for under $3 mil for 2 or 3 years. Avoid arbitration as well.
It reminds me a bit of Backlund. Not his last deal, but the one prior. He showed flashes but was really inconsistent. He signed a very friendly prove it deal, and I think Colborne will do similar. Perhaps at $2.5ish.

[saillias]

I voted to let him walk.

He's a decent player, but he's probably priced himself out of the Flames budget and needs to go get his payday somewhere else.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I still think he will sign for under $3 mil for 2 or 3 years. Avoid arbitration as well.
It reminds me a bit of Backlund. Not his last deal, but the one prior. He showed flashes but was really inconsistent. He signed a very friendly prove it deal, and I think Colborne will do similar. Perhaps at $2.5ish.

Backlund was making .725, then signed a 1 year deal at 1.5 "prove it deal".

Seriously scared at what they are going to give Colborne.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Backlund was making .725, then signed a 1 year deal at 1.5 "prove it deal".

Seriously scared at what they are going to give Colborne.

That's what I am getting at. Inflationary, but I could see him going from 1.25 to 2.5 or so. I can live with that. (I think Backlund signed for 2 years @ 1.5 AAV)

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

That's what I am getting at. Inflationary, but I could see him going from 1.25 to 2.5 or so. I can live with that. (I think Backlund signed for 2 years @ 1.5 AAV)

Yeah you're right, it was a 2 year deal at 1.5M for Backlund. That was a steal.

[Major Happy]

1.5-2.0 million, 1-3 years.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Yeah you're right, it was a 2 year deal at 1.5M for Backlund. That was a steal.

Backlund was 23 when he signed his 2 year 3M deal ...He was coming off 2 disappointing seasons ( 2 year totals 73 games 12 goals 27 pts -19. He was still and RFA when he finished the contract. He had no options other than signing whatever the Flames felt was fair or playing in Europe.

Colborne as a 23 year old signed a 2x1.275 ....

Today he is in basically the same position that Backlund was last summer where Backlund was a RFA, with arbitration rights and would be a UFA for his next contract.

Backlund coming off a 27 pts in 52 games 29 pts in 63 games counting playoffs got a 3x 3.575.

How would Colborne coming a strong playoff performance and a 44 pt season not be worth as much as Backlund?

44>>> 29.

Don't even pretend that Backlund was more consistent in 2014-15 than Colborne was in 2015-16.

The Flames go into arbitration with less than a 3M offer the arbitrator will give Colborne whatever he asks for under 4M.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Backlund was 23 when he signed his 2 year 3M deal ...He was coming off 2 disappointing seasons ( 2 year totals 73 games 12 goals 27 pts -19. He was still and RFA when he finished the contract. He had no options other than signing whatever the Flames felt was fair or playing in Europe.

Colborne as a 23 year old signed a 2x1.275 ....

Today he is in basically the same position that Backlund was last summer where Backlund was a RFA, with arbitration rights and would be a UFA for his next contract.

Backlund coming off a 27 pts in 52 games 29 pts in 63 games counting playoffs got a 3x 3.575.

How would Colborne coming a strong playoff performance and a 44 pt season not be worth as much as Backlund?

44>>> 29.

Don't even pretend that Backlund was more consistent in 2014-15 than Colborne was in 2015-16.

The Flames go into arbitration with less than a 3M offer the arbitrator will give Colborne whatever he asks for under 4M.

Ricardo that is just..., hey wait, that is pretty reasonable.

I am not sure about whether UFA years were bought from Backlund (and obviously we won't know where we land with Colborne), so that will make a difference as to cost. I also think Backlund provides much more value outside of just points, so 44>29 is an oversimplification of value. Finally, I think the Flames got a great deal out of Backlund, so I am not sure that is the best base-line either. However, overall, I do think if it goes to Arbitration, Colborne could easily be looking at 3ish.

[Alberta_Beef]

3 x 2.75 is what I expect to see.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Ricardo that is just..., hey wait, that is pretty reasonable.

No, it's the usual Ricardo level of dumb.

Saying 44>29 ignores the PPG ratio, it also ignores that Backlund has remained at center whereas Colborne has been converted to wing, it also ignores that Backlund is worlds better defensively.

I don't give Joe Colborne a qualifying offer... I either sign him to what I think is a reasonable offer beforehand or I trade his rights beforehand. The cap is too tight to risk losing an arb case.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Parallex

No, it's the usual Ricardo level of dumb.

Saying 44>29 ignores the PPG ratio, it also ignores that Backlund has remained at center whereas Colborne has been converted to wing, it also ignores that Backlund is worlds better defensively.

I don't give Joe Colborne a qualifying offer... I either sign him to what I think is a reasonable offer beforehand or I trade his rights beforehand. The cap is too tight to risk losing an arb case.

No Qualifying offer???!!! Colborne would get a 4x4 as a UFA.

Backlund turned out okay and had a solid year in the 1st year of his 3M+ contract, BUT comparing his 2 year on the prove-it contract he was a pretty big risk... really much the same as Colborne.

Backlund games 128 goals 28 ppg .52 +8 hits 105 .8 hits/game, face off 2197 FO % 47.8 shots/game 2.2

Compared to Colbornes 2 year prove-it contract

Colborne games 137 goals 27 ppg .53 -2 hits 280 2.0 hits/game, face offs 491 FO % 53.2 shots/game 1.2

Is the fact that Backlund is a 2/3C make him that much more valuable than Colborne who is definitely a top 9 forward with size and the ability to play a heavy game?

In the Flames 11 playoff games Backlund and Colborne were very close statistically ( pts, +/-, TOI) except Backlund generating more shots 30 to 7 and Colborne outhitting Backlund 31-12.

Everyone is looking for a big aggressive player who can take a regular shift.

If Colborne gets a 1 year deal out of arbitration and just matches his 2015-16 numbers he will be looking a a better UFA deal than Frolik.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

No Qualifying offer???!!! Colborne would get a 4x4 as a UFA.

Backlund turned out okay and had a solid year in the 1st year of his 3M+ contract, BUT comparing his 2 year on the prove-it contract he was a pretty big risk... really much the same as Colborne.

Backlund games 128 goals 28 ppg .52 +8 hits 105 .8 hits/game, face off 2197 FO % 47.8 shots/game 2.2

Compared to Colbornes 2 year prove-it contract

Colborne games 137 goals 27 ppg .53 -2 hits 280 2.0 hits/game, face offs 491 FO % 53.2 shots/game 1.2

Is the fact that Backlund is a 2/3C make him that much more valuable than Colborne who is definitely a top 9 forward with size and the ability to play a heavy game?

In the Flames 11 playoff games Backlund and Colborne were very close statistically ( pts, +/-, TOI) except Backlund generating more shots 30 to 7 and Colborne outhitting Backlund 31-12.

Everyone is looking for a big aggressive player who can take a regular shift.

If Colborne gets a 1 year deal out of arbitration and just matches his 2015-16 numbers he will be looking a a better UFA deal than Frolik.

Frolik had more consistent numbers over a longer time frame. Way less injured (save for last season) than Colborne, better PKer, Stanley Cup winner, etc. This is coming from a guy who loves Colborne, hoping he signs a long term deal, but he isn't getting Frolik $$$.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Frolik had more consistent numbers over a longer time frame. Way less injured (save for last season) than Colborne, better PKer, Stanley Cup winner, etc. This is coming from a guy who loves Colborne, hoping he signs a long term deal, but he isn't getting Frolik $$$.

Frolik had exactly 2 40 pt season in a row with the Jets.

Before that he had 4th line numbers with the hawks. AFTER winning the SC he was traded to the Jets for a 3rd and 4th pick.

He is the lead PK forward on the worst PK in the league.

In the position where Frolik had put up his 1st 40 pt season with the Jets and was an RFA with arbitration he signed a 1 year deal for 3.3M.

Colborne was #16 overall in 2008 Frolik was #10 overall in 2006... Both did not live up to initial expecations.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Frolik had exactly 2 40 pt season in a row with the Jets.

Before that he had 4th line numbers with the hawks. AFTER winning the SC he was traded to the Jets for a 3rd and 4th pick.

He is the lead PK forward on the worst PK in the league.

In the position where Frolik had put up his 1st 40 pt season with the Jets and was an RFA with arbitration he signed a 1 year deal for 3.3M.

Colborne was #16 overall in 2008 Frolik was #10 overall in 2006... Both did not live up to initial expecations.

For the amount of desperate cherry-picking you do, you still manage to come up with some really unconvincing arguments.

[Vinny01]

44pts last year most of which came in garbage time down the stretch. An unsustainable 19% shooting percentage. 3 years at $7M total is as much as I would want to go.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

44pts last year most of which came in garbage time down the stretch. An unsustainable 19% shooting percentage. 3 years at $7M total is as much as I would want to go.

Flames played 21 games after trading Hudler.
Colborne had 21 points in those 21 games, playing pretty much exclusively with Backlund and Frolik
Garbage time? Yes, but different role/line as well. Colborne basically took Bennett's place as wing on that line, and took off, Bennett moved to centre (mostly) after that.
Backlund/Frolik/Colborne had the highest CF% of any line not including Gaudreau and Monahan... but Backlund/Frolik combo pushed possession with anyone they played with.
Hopefully they will get a Flames friendly 3 year deal done, that works for Colborne. This could turn into a very good thing for the Flames.

[flamesfever]

If Colborne wants 40 pt money, I would definitely shorten up his time to one or two years. If he starts reverting back to his old ways, I'd hate to be paying good money to see him as part of this team.

[Krynn]

I think Joe signs a nice home town discount for 2×3=6 lol or I'm just wishing