2016 NHL Draft

[Erratik]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

I guess one thing i havent really thougj about is lets say we do draft a defenceman with the 6th pick. Theres nothing saying we cant trade one of hamilton or brodie if they project the 6th pick d man to be better or equal. And we all know what hamilton or brodie could fetch us

Is this a serious post? Honest question.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

I guess one thing i havent really thougj about is lets say we do draft a defenceman with the 6th pick. Theres nothing saying we cant trade one of hamilton or brodie if they project the 6th pick d man to be better or equal. And we all know what hamilton or brodie could fetch us

It could even be a Hamilton or Brodie!

[RoughRiderRowdy]

Originally Posted by Erratik

Is this a serious post? Honest question.

Dead serious post.

[RoughRiderRowdy]

Im saying a couple years down the road if our 6th oa d man pick this year shows to be as good as one of our stud D men we could trade one of them for what we need up front. Basically why we should draft BPA.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I agree with rough rider here. If we have too many top 3 defencemen at some point that's one of the best commodities to have extra of. You can trade good dmen for anything you need. Top pairing defencemen and big first line centres are worth so much in value that it would be hard to turn them down for a finesse winger.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by ignite09

He's no more soft then Keller or Nylander, so why would that be an issue? As to your second point you may be right, but no scout has brought that up as an issue so I'll take your opinion with a grain of salt. Brown isn't the only prospect with talented line mates, I don't see that as a flaw.

Look at his numbers in the first half of the year, he had a winger Fischer for the whole season that ended up with 40G and 90 points and he still did not have great numbers in the first half. Then Lemieux came in and he had a big 2nd half but you watch those games and you can tell he was a huge benefactor of having those two on his line. He was expected to go near the latter half of the 1st mid way through the season and skyrocketed up to where he is now with a big second half. If he was not 6'6 I don't know if he would even go in the 1st rnd. This is a classic case of a giant player being highly ranked because of his size, not his ability. Hey, I could be totally wrong, I am not a pro scout. I just think there are much better sure things at #6 than this guy.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

Im saying a couple years down the road if our 6th oa d man pick this year shows to be as good as one of our stud D men we could trade one of them for what we need up front. Basically why we should draft BPA.

Brodie is probably untouchable for the rest of his career.

But you're right. Or better yet we could convert Dougie to RW, he's actually IMO among the best forecheckers on our team

Johnny-Monny-Dougie

Sergachyev-Brodie
Kulak-Andersson



And then you've still got a top 4D if there's an injury to your back-end.

Plus Gio.
Plus Kylington.

Wow.

[Caged Great]

It's the exact situation the Predators ran into with the emergence of Josi and Ekholm to go along with Jones Weber and Ellis. They used one to address a bigger area of need.

If the Flames luck out and all of Andersson/Hickey/Kylington and #6 become quality NHL calibre D-men, someone will have to go. That's the opposite of a problem. That's also why I wouldn't mind the Flames getting yet another goalie with a top 66 pick, because if more than one of Gillies/McDonald/Ortio/Schneider/New Guy turn out, then we'll basically be like the Ducks and have our pick of two plus very good goalies.

[RoughRiderRowdy]

This is kind of a weird question, but i want your guys' opinion. So lets say we draft one of the D men at 6. And he progresses nicely in 2 years. A) whos your best guess as who we could trade on the back end, and B) who would you like to acquire?

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

This is kind of a weird question, but i want your guys' opinion. So lets say we draft one of the D men at 6. And he progresses nicely in 2 years. A) whos your best guess as who we could trade on the back end, and B) who would you like to acquire?

Wouldn't trade anyone until 1-6 are filled with out own talent and we have additional guys coming along in the pool also.

So if say we take Sergachev and he pans out and 2/3 of Kylington/Andersson/Hickey turn out, the Flames will have a full group 1-6. Then it would matter if the Flames add any additional guys.

The younger guys will be cheap options for a while. If they all pan out, then you can re-evaluate once Brodie/Hamilton/Gio's contracts are close to being up.

Until then, why not rock out with that cast 1-6 and make the other teams have to deal with it. That's what Nashville did. Now they have a couple of guys pushing for spots in addition to 1-6, that's why they were able to move Jones. Bitetto came in and effectively took the role that Ekholm was doing as he was shifted up into Jones' role.

[Calgary4LIfe]

My worry with Nylander actually grew due to his combine results. The more I have digested it, the more I question him as a good selection at 6.

His fitness testing was sensational. Why then, does McLeod look like the guy with the non-stop motor who is driving that line? Nylander's motivation off the ice is top-notch, but on the ice it makes me worried. Also, since his fitness testing is so good as compared to his peer group, does this mean he has what I would call a considerable advantage, yet has really not out-shined the other guys who are likely to be selected at that spot?

It isn't like I would panic or be disappointed in selecting Nylander - he definitely has skill and I think he would probably be a decent scorer in the NHL if he hit somewhere between his floor and his ceiling. I am just really, really iffy on him being a no-brainer at 6. I think there are better prospects that fit what the Flames are hoping to build as an identity, but he wouldn't be a 'bad' pick at 6 either, and one I could live with.

I just think that the Flames should pick the guy who will have the best career, and the guy who best fits the team moving forward (essentially BPA), more so than who is going to make the team right now or who fills an immediate need in the lineup.

Nylander is definitely interesting, and he (along with Keller) are the two 'sexy' pics, but I am just not convinced he is the definite guy at 6 at all, and feel there are probably better fits who have just as high of ceilings.

[Samonadreau]

^IMO you are over-analyzing and if he is in good shape that is a good thing.

If he had bad combine results would you have seen it as a good thing?

[dammage79]

There's far too much hand wringing over Nylander here. Unwarranted IMO.

CHL Rookie of the year.
Led his team in scoring in his rookie year.
Big time performance in the OHL playoffs.
Impressive International performances leading each respective team he played for. Even in the U-18's where he was a bit unerwhelming he still led his team with 11 points in 7 gp. Top 5 producer in the tournament. Got outshone in the WJC by the Finns but still finished top 6 in points behind Matthews, Tkachuk and the wonder Finn line of Aho and the killer RW's.

As big of a fan of McLeod as I am, I don't think he "drove" that line more than Nylander. They played well off of each other. If he works well with McLeod, then he sure as heck is going to work great with the likes of Bennett or Monahan.

Man, the stigma that his last name carries is ridiculous.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Therefore at #6 in a draft with a good top end we should be drafting the most valuable positions (big top two line centres, top 3 defensemen) or if we take a winger we should take the rarer commodity and the commodity we need more, which is the skilled power forward.

Perhaps power forwards are rarer because their development is less reliable? And therefore, drafting them riskier?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by SebC

Perhaps power forwards are rarer because their development is less reliable? And therefore, drafting them riskier?

Dangerous to generalize too much IMO. Are they more risky? And even if they are in general, the ones who go top 5-6 are still premiere prospects expected to have a low bust rate. I don't see Dubois or Tkachuk as risky picks. To me riskier picks would be Keller (size), Gauthier (play dropped off), guys like that.

I think powerforwards are rare because not everybody can be big, strong, and skilled and play a powerful style. Colborne on our team for example is big and somewhat strong but isn't naturally a physical player, he's more of a finesse forward at heart. He's gotten better at using his size but he isn't a powerforward.

So what % of prospects have excellent size/strength?
What % of those are skilled and can skate?
What % of those play a powerful or physical style?

You're not looking at a huge subset of big, strong, skilled, physical top end forwards. They are rare because they are a rare combination of attributes.

Heck it's rare to get size, strength, skating, skill, smarts, character and physicality at any position. Most players lack several of those ideal attributes. This draft features some kids at the top end who manage to tick most of those boxes.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

My worry with Nylander actually grew due to his combine results. The more I have digested it, the more I question him as a good selection at 6.

His fitness testing was sensational. Why then, does McLeod look like the guy with the non-stop motor who is driving that line? Nylander's motivation off the ice is top-notch, but on the ice it makes me worried. Also, since his fitness testing is so good as compared to his peer group, does this mean he has what I would call a considerable advantage, yet has really not out-shined the other guys who are likely to be selected at that spot?

It isn't like I would panic or be disappointed in selecting Nylander - he definitely has skill and I think he would probably be a decent scorer in the NHL if he hit somewhere between his floor and his ceiling. I am just really, really iffy on him being a no-brainer at 6. I think there are better prospects that fit what the Flames are hoping to build as an identity, but he wouldn't be a 'bad' pick at 6 either, and one I could live with.

I just think that the Flames should pick the guy who will have the best career, and the guy who best fits the team moving forward (essentially BPA), more so than who is going to make the team right now or who fills an immediate need in the lineup.

Nylander is definitely interesting, and he (along with Keller) are the two 'sexy' pics, but I am just not convinced he is the definite guy at 6 at all, and feel there are probably better fits who have just as high of ceilings.

Matter of opinion. Those who watch and voted on OHL All-Star teams didn't think McLeod was better.

Nylander was named to the 3rd team while McLeod was not on the list. He outscored McLeod in the regular season and in the playoffs. McLeod is no longer on anyones top 10 list while Nylander is the favorite at 6.

It's fair to say his good fitness goes along with him being the better prospect.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Dangerous to generalize too much IMO. Are they more risky? And even if they are in general, the ones who go top 5-6 are still premiere prospects expected to have a low bust rate. I don't see Dubois or Tkachuk as risky picks. To me riskier picks would be Keller (size), Gauthier (play dropped off), guys like that.

I think powerforwards are rare because not everybody can be big, strong, and skilled and play a powerful style. Colborne on our team for example is big and somewhat strong but isn't naturally a physical player, he's more of a finesse forward at heart. He's gotten better at using his size but he isn't a powerforward.

So what % of prospects have excellent size/strength?
What % of those are skilled and can skate?
What % of those play a powerful or physical style?

You're not looking at a huge subset of big, strong, skilled, physical top end forwards. They are rare because they are a rare combination of attributes.

Heck it's rare to get size, strength, skating, skill, smarts, character and physicality at any position. Most players lack several of those ideal attributes. This draft features some kids at the top end who manage to tick most of those boxes.

If Dubois and Tkatchuk are gone who is the power forward target at 6? I keep hearing Brown isn't physical despite his size, jokes aside he's a better Colborne. It's well and good to prefer to pick a PF at 6 but is there one available?

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

I forgot about this rule with regards to Nylander:

Ryan Kennedy @THNRyanKennedy
Talked to Alex Nylander; because he was "loaned" from Europe to OHL, he can play AHL next year (or NHL, OHL or Europe), like Julius Honka

So thanks to this technicality, Nylander could end up in Stockton to start the season if the Flames did draft him. And if he can be assigned to Stockton off the bat, the Flames could call him up and down through the season with impunity.

Thats a little bit of icing on the cake. I would rather a player like him play in the AHL rather than the OHL next season in terms of development anyway.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

My worry with Nylander actually grew due to his combine results. The more I have digested it, the more I question him as a good selection at 6.

His fitness testing was sensational. Why then, does McLeod look like the guy with the non-stop motor who is driving that line? Nylander's motivation off the ice is top-notch, but on the ice it makes me worried. Also, since his fitness testing is so good as compared to his peer group, does this mean he has what I would call a considerable advantage, yet has really not out-shined the other guys who are likely to be selected at that spot?

It isn't like I would panic or be disappointed in selecting Nylander - he definitely has skill and I think he would probably be a decent scorer in the NHL if he hit somewhere between his floor and his ceiling. I am just really, really iffy on him being a no-brainer at 6. I think there are better prospects that fit what the Flames are hoping to build as an identity, but he wouldn't be a 'bad' pick at 6 either, and one I could live with.

I just think that the Flames should pick the guy who will have the best career, and the guy who best fits the team moving forward (essentially BPA), more so than who is going to make the team right now or who fills an immediate need in the lineup.

Nylander is definitely interesting, and he (along with Keller) are the two 'sexy' pics, but I am just not convinced he is the definite guy at 6 at all, and feel there are probably better fits who have just as high of ceilings.

Come on dude. McLeod's a center yet it's universal amongst scouts that Nylander is the better prospect. I feel very confident that the scouts that have watched these players closely have a much better grasp of these players than we internet posters. If McLeod really was the guy with a non-stop motor driving the passenger that is Nylander why have the scouts not caught on to this?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by edslunch

If Dubois and Tkatchuk are gone who is the power forward target at 6? I keep hearing Brown isn't physical despite his size, jokes aside he's a better Colborne. It's well and good to prefer to pick a PF at 6 but is there one available?

Well there's Gauthier and Max Jones as Power Forwards but they're not considered top ten talent.