"Prognosis is not really good" on NHL players going to 2018 Olympics

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

This new World Cup doesn't compare to the Canada Cup or even 1996 World Cup.

The CC was born at the peak of the Cold War. It was more than just a clash of nations. It was also a clash of ideology. The west, represented by Canada, against the Communist Soviet Union. Then throw in Czechoslovakia, held under the Soviet boot and which desired every little victory it could get over their oppressors. Finland and Sweden, right on top of the Soviet monster, and finally the US, which was really just there to round out the roster. Those games were as political as one could imagine.

And that, perhaps, partially explains why the Canada Cup fizzled out after the Soviet Bloc fell apart.

The 2016 World Cup is simply a more ridiculous version of the 2004 World Cup. It's there, we cheered for our team, we moved on the next day.

I agree it doesn't compare, but why is that? The 96 tournament was amazing. After that, the NHL goes to the Olympics and the World Cup takes an 8 year and now a 12 year hiatus. This years event will be nothing compared to previous or Olympics, no argument there.

What's being argued is that it can be a meaningful event, if done right.

[corporatejay]

Want these games be on in the middle of the night if so. Who cares.

[Mr.Coffee]

The World Cup got weird when they introduced a young team and a European team.

If either of those teams win it'll be simply bizarre. In fact, it's just bizarre with them in it. If they're good enough to compete in the tournament they'll be selected by their countries. Who gives a rats ass if the young kids win it? How does one possibly even connect with that, what do they represent, young people? Holy ####, nobody likes young people. They're worse than old people.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

I think this has more to do with the fact that the next 2 Winter Olympics are in Asia (how did that happen by the way??).
They are not hockey countries and are in a terrible time zone for the NA market.
This why the World Cup has been resurrected, the NHL knew they didn't really want to go to go half way around the world in the middle of the season. Maybe if the 2026 games are in a more attractive market they will re-consider.
Of course not having to share $$ with the IIHF or IOC is also a large factor.

Haha sorry but find your questioning about how the next two Olympics being in Asia "happened" considering they aren't in the NA timezone... you know there's a whole world outside of NA and the Winter Games aren't solely about hockey right?

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

The World Cup got weird when they introduced a young team and a European team.

If either of those teams win it'll be simply bizarre. In fact, it's just bizarre with them in it. If they're good enough to compete in the tournament they'll be selected by their countries. Who gives a rats ass if the young kids win it? How does one possibly even connect with that, what do they represent, young people? Holy ####, nobody likes young people. They're worse than old people.

I'm with you on the U23 team, just bizzare. I don't actually mind team Euro. Ideally I'd have liked them to let Slovakia stand alone and the create a Euro team out of all the other Euro nations. That to me could work and would give us much better hockey than if the Swiss, Germans and Slovenians entered solo teams.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I agree it doesn't compare, but why is that? The 96 tournament was amazing. After that, the NHL goes to the Olympics and the World Cup takes an 8 year and now a 12 year hiatus. This years event will be nothing compared to previous or Olympics, no argument there.

What's being argued is that it can be a meaningful event, if done right.

This.

Biggest mistake the NHL made was going to the 98 olympics and not having a 2000 World Cup. Especially since the US won in 96. Should have continued that momentum.

[CroFlames]

Remember when everyone thought the road to gold would be a cake walk for Canada in Nagano? Haha stupid Crawford.

In all fairness though, I don't think Gretz would have scored on Hasek in the shootout.

[Dan02]

I really really want the NHL players at the Olympics because it's the only chance to really see best on best national hockey. I was really angry when I heard the NHL was considering not going to the Olympics.

However, once I found out the IOC wanted the NHL to pickup the tab for the privledge of sending their athletes to the games, the IOC can pound sand.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Remember when everyone thought the road to gold would be a cake walk for Canada in Nagano? Haha stupid Crawford.

I know it was super disappointing but when you look back at it Canada played quite well, until they ran into Hasek they were 4-0 only having allowed 4 goals in 4 games, then they lost 2-1 in a shootout to a goalie who may be the best goalie of all time.

We look back at Sochi and talk about how dominant team Canada was, but even though they were a wall defensively and by far the best team in every game they played. How would we feel about them had they lost the semi finals to the Americans 2-1 instead of winning 1-0?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

There was partying in the streets, was it anything close to 2010 post Vancouver, I honestly have no idea, I was too young to partake in 87

I would say, the volume of street partying likely isn't the best barometer of how much it meant to people. Was Vancouvers party influenced by the fact that the Olympics is often full of street parties anyway, or did people street party as much in the 80's? I have no idea.

Well I don't necessarily mean there has to be street-partying just that there was a collective national tension and then joy. Like others have said, with this World Cup I might watch it but I'm not going to be emotionally involved in it.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Dan02

I really really want the NHL players at the Olympics because it's the only chance to really see best on best national hockey. I was really angry when I heard the NHL was considering not going to the Olympics.

However, once I found out the IOC wanted the NHL to pickup the tab for the privledge of sending their athletes to the games, the IOC can pound sand.

It was like that from the start. Bettman threw away a money making summer tournament in 1996 to INTERRUPT the season to go to Nagano, Japan FOR FREE! And we can't say it was the owners, the owners never wanted to go, the players were excited. It was Bettman and that should be part of his failed legacy.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/16/sp...?pagewanted=1l

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It was like that from the start. Bettman threw away a money making summer tournament in 1996 to INTERRUPT the season to go to Nagano, Japan FOR FREE! And we can't say it was the owners, the owners never wanted to go, the players were excited. It was Bettman and that should be part of his failed legacy.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/16/sp...?pagewanted=1l

Many of the owners very much wanted to go. Among the marching orders Bettman was given by the owners himself when he was hired, settling the Olympic question was high on the list.

You also forget that this is the early 90s when the deals were first reached, and a league that had operated for 75 years on a strong-owner-weak-president model. If the owners didn't want to go to the Olympics in 1998, there is zero Bettman could have done to force it upon them.

[GirlySports]

Were the owners that naive? Who would forego World Cup money and stop the season at its peak in february to send player to the other side of the world to play for free with no insurance?

[Resolute 14]

Obviously the players were insured. Remember, one of the issues now is that the IOC is refusing to help subsidize the insurance.

And while they may have been naive, I don't think it was for the reason you suggest. The Canada Cup/World Cup was a joint venture with Hockey Canada, so they received less income due to splitting then than they would now having complete control.

But most importantly, the owners thought that going to the Olympics would have a noticeable effect on growing interest in the NHL brand, and therefore revenues. They have now gone to five Olympics, and I would expect have a lot of hard data today that they didn't then.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Obviously the players were insured. Remember, one of the issues now is that the IOC is refusing to help subsidize the insurance.

And while they may have been naive, I don't think it was for the reason you suggest. The Canada Cup/World Cup was a joint venture with Hockey Canada, so they received less income due to splitting then than they would now having complete control.

But most importantly, the owners thought that going to the Olympics would have a noticeable effect on growing interest in the NHL brand, and therefore revenues. They have now gone to five Olympics, and I would expect have a lot of hard data today that they didn't then.

Probably a lot of hard data that says, it's worth it if the tournament is in North America, total waste if it's anywhere else would be my guess.

[Resolute 14]

Possibly, but even then, I am not so sure. The anti-Olympics movement within the owners broke into mainstream news before the Vancouver Games. There appeared to be a faction that already wanted out before that and expected 2010 would be the swan song - appropriately given the CBA expired before 2014.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Probably a lot of hard data that says, it's worth it if the tournament is in North America, total waste if it's anywhere else would be my guess.

Especially considering time zones and the impact they would have on TV broadcasts and subsequently TV revenues.

[Itse]

The olympic brand also isn't what it used to be. It might play a part both in the financial calculations (being connected to it isn't maybe seen as valuable) and in the way the owners personally feel about the issue.

[FireGilbert]

The teams have been decided for the 2018 Winter Olympic Men's hockey tournament with Norway, Germany and Slovenia winning their qualifiers over the weekend. The pools are as follows:

Group A: Canada, Czech Republic, Switzerland, South Korea
Group B: Russia, USA, Slovakia, Slovenia
Group C: Sweden, Finland, Norway, Germany

A few comments/questions:

-Someone needs to tell the NHL this is what a world cup looks like.
-Will you still watch the tournament without NHLers? I remember 94 being great hockey, however it was still a step below the best on best tournaments to follow and I wasn't too concerned with Canada getting gold. I will probably watch all the Canada games but won't have much interest in the other teams.
-Who will play for Canada? I'm guessing a collection of European based players like the Spengler.
-Who are the favourites? Normally this would be Canada but without NHLers it is clearly the Russians.
-How badly will the South Koreans do? I would normally like the idea of a host team to help spread the game but not when they are 23rd in the world. The tournament would be better with a Belarus or Latvia who would at least be competitive.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

The teams have been decided for the 2018 Winter Olympic Men's hockey tournament with Norway, Germany and Slovenia winning their qualifiers over the weekend. The pools are as follows:

Group A: Canada, Czech Republic, Switzerland, South Korea
Group B: Russia, USA, Slovakia, Slovenia
Group C: Sweden, Finland, Norway, Germany

A few comments/questions:

-Someone needs to tell the NHL this is what a world cup looks like.
-Will you still watch the tournament without NHLers? I remember 94 being great hockey, however it was still a step below the best on best tournaments to follow and I wasn't too concerned with Canada getting gold. I will probably watch all the Canada games but won't have much interest in the other teams.
-Who will play for Canada? I'm guessing a collection of European based players like the Spengler.
-Who are the favourites? Normally this would be Canada but without NHLers it is clearly the Russians.
-How badly will the South Koreans do? I would normally like the idea of a host team to help spread the game but not when they are 23rd in the world. The tournament would be better with a Belarus or Latvia who would at least be competitive.

My thoughts.

1. What good does it do for the NHL to have South Korea, Slovenia, Norway, Slovakia and Germany in the world cup? I see no benefit to the NHL at all other, all it would result in is a few squash matches. The NHL's objective is to make money and I don't think squash matches involving those countries will sell as well. Not to mention Team EUrope and North America jerseys should make them a pretty penny, especially the NA ones.

2. I would prefer the tournament if NHLers did not go. I preferred Olympic hockey before NHLers started going. I also have hopes that Hockey Canada would bring back the National Team program they had prior to the NHL going to the Olympics.

3. As stated in #2 I hope this means the re-instatement of the National Team program that hockey Canada would send to the Olympics and Spengler Cup. If it is not re-instituted NHL Teams may let AHLers go and play, Canadians playing in Europe and maybe some CHL/NCAA talents will fill the roster.

4. Canada and Russia would be the favorites IMO. But it would make the whole tournament more competitive I think.

5. South Korea will be curb stomped every time they step on the ice. I expect them to go 0-3 in the round robin with at least a -25 goal differential. But Belarus or Latvia would be stomped too (not as badly), at least this will result in ticket sales.