The Ongoing Dog Attack Mega-Thread

[Eastern Girl]

I am sympathetic. I said that I am aware of the fact that people are afraid of him, based on nothing more than his size, breed or just that he's a dog. There's a vast difference, however, between what you describe and my dog. There's a vast difference between my dog on a leash, wagging his tail, not pulling, not being aggressive, not barking or doing anything even remotely aggressive and what you are describing above. I stay away from people who seem nervous. I keep him on leash. I let them know that he's friendly and won't hurt them. There's nothing more I can do to assuage their fear of large breeds or dogs in general. I've done everything that I can.

Having said all that, I think we are on the same page when it comes to what you have described. I don't like irresponsible owners either. I hate when dogs (any dog, aggressive or otherwise) is off leash outside of a dog park. I've had dogs approach me and my dog before and it was clear they were aggressive. I also noted that my dog was twice bitten by dogs that were off leash, with owners that could not have cared less. That's not the dog though. That's the owner. Further, that doesn't negate the fact that everyone prejudges me and my dog based on his breed and size. I have a rottie. He's a death machine and I'm a terrible owner for even bringing out in public without a hannibal lector mask contraption.

Yes, when larger dogs attack, they generally do more damage, as they are bigger and stronger. However, if every dog bite/attack was reported in the paper or otherwise, I think you'd be surprised at the variety of breeds mentioned. It wouldn't be as one sided as you seem to think. It certainly wouldn't be 90% of attacks.

And again, that all comes down to the owner, which was really my point. I am a responsible owner and despite your belief, am very empathetic to those that are afraid of dogs. I've been bitten by dogs before. It still comes down to the owner.

Dogs are great. People are dicks.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Eastern Girl

Dogs are great. People are dicks.

On this, we shall forever agree

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by ken0042

That is my concern, for everybody who wants a Rottwieler due to them being great dogs when trained properly, there are others who want them and will not invest the time and effort into training.

I had a room mate who had a Rottwieler- and he was a great dog. I could train him to do just about anything; usually pretty quick as well. Unfortunately my room mate did not spend the time with him that is needed, and after I moved out apparently things went further downhill for the dog. The dog would intentionally do things that would get him into trouble, as that was the only attention he would ever get. The room mate never "got" why the dog would defecate in the house when I wasn't home; and then would also never do it when I was home. The dog knew what to do to get my attention, and how to ask me to go for a walk.

So yes, get a Rottwieler if you have the time to spend with a smart, loving and loyal dog. Do not get one if the main reason is "they are badass."

This is why I am giving the GP's the benefit of the doubt, I would guess with them being GP's they are not getting a Rottie because they are cool or mean but because they are an excellent companion and family member.

We can have this discussion a million times with different aspects, Majority of dog owners are responsible and put the time in to socializing the animals and training them. Its not any different than majority of people don't drink and drive but some idiots do and in some cases it ends badly.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Eastern Girl

There's a vast difference, however, between what you describe and my dog. There's a vast difference between my dog on a leash, wagging his tail, not pulling, not being aggressive, not barking or doing anything even remotely aggressive and what you are describing above.

It's important to keep in mind that many people cannot read a dog's body language. Even other dog owners. I've had my dog in the off leash park, go up to another dog, give the classic play stance (bowing down in front of the other dog) and my dog lets out a bark. And have the other owner tell me I should not have an aggressive dog at the park.

[Major Happy]

Aren't most dog attacks on humans done by Rottweiler's and Pit Bulls though?

It seems like at least 90% of the time I hear about a dog attacking a human its by one of these two breeds.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Major Happy

Aren't most dog attacks on humans done by Rottweiler's and Pit Bulls though?

It seems like at least 90% of the time I hear about a dog attacking a human its by one of these two breeds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_..._United_States

[Major Happy]

Originally Posted by heep223

;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

Im mostly seeing those two breeds.

Granted, Pit Bulls are showing up quite a bit more.

[Eastern Girl]

Originally Posted by ken0042

It's important to keep in mind that many people cannot read a dog's body language. Even other dog owners. I've had my dog in the off leash park, go up to another dog, give the classic play stance (bowing down in front of the other dog) and my dog lets out a bark. And have the other owner tell me I should not have an aggressive dog at the park.

Yes, I get that. I am not judging people for being afraid of dogs I completely understand that, which is why I'm responsible with him. He's on a leash. I communicate with the people around me. I keep a close eye on him, for his benefit as well as others around him. If you don't have a dog and don't know doggie body language, that's fine too. That's why I am responsible with my dog.

I will judge those who have dogs that deem certain doggie body language as aggressive. Part of being responsible with your dog is learning about them. If you have a dog and can't read dog body language, how are you going to know if they are sick or scared or timid or whatever else? Those are things you need to know in order to properly care for your dog. You need to be responsible. That's really the theme of my posts here. Responsibility.

Anyways - I don't like being told I'm not sympathetic to someone who is afraid of dogs in general, or just larger breeds. I do everything I can to ensure I am not doing anything to add to their fear. What I said was I don't like my dog being pre-judged based on breed and size. or me as irresponsible because I have a rottie out in public.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by ken0042

It's important to keep in mind that many people cannot read a dog's body language. Even other dog owners.

The hysteria some people have about big dogs is hilarious. Without fail, on the three or four occasions when our Leonberger managed to get out of the yard or house during his lifetime and went on an adventure around the neighbourhood, someone would end up coming to the conclusion that this big harmless ball of fur, who literally would retreat in terror when confronted with an overly protective chihuahua, was going to kill them. Someone once called 9-1-1 and started screaming about a wild wolf in their front yard.

[nik-]

That post was dumb. Keep your dog under control. Just because you're not scared of your big dog doesn't mean people who are concerned about it running around uncontrolled are irrational.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Major Happy

Aren't most dog attacks on humans done by Rottweiler's and Pit Bulls though?

It seems like at least 90% of the time I hear about a dog attacking a human its by one of these two breeds.

It's certainly more common.

However, it's also more common that someone who wants a guard dog, or a dog that looks tough/ is "bad ass" will seek these types and train it (or not) as such.

A lot of dog owners seem to agree (from my experience anyways), that the frequency of attacks from these types of dogs has more to do with how they tend to be trained than any sort of innate aggression (which should be trainable even if it was the case). Almost any dog I come across of these breeds are just as friendly as any other breed. However, when there are aggressive dogs, yes it tends to be these types, but their owners look like the type of person who would sucker punch you too.

It's understandable that people get apprehensive about these types, because you don't know the owners and how theyre trained, but if you trust the person owning the dog, I think you can generally trust the dog.

The worst dogs for aggressiveness, by my anecdotal poll, are the tiny dogs, chihuahuas especially. By far. The issue is, when they are aggressive, it's a pretty meh event. That is until they annoy the big dogs a little too much and all of a sudden their getting mangled by something 20x their size.

Honestly, I think this is just due to their size, that owners are afriad to get physical with them when they are younger (I would be too). One of the reasons I wanted a big dog is so if I played with it, or had to discipline it, I never feared hurting it. When my dog was a puppy I seemed to be able to quell any barking or biting tendencies with a grab of it's snout, or a smack on the nose. I don't imagine someone with a small dog ever does either of those things. Thus, they are terrors. They've never been shown who's boss and so, in their minds, they are the boss.

Some people seem to forget that, even though your dog is a cuddly fuzz ball who's cute AF,is still an animal that needs to be trained and taught a lesson every once in a while.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Major Happy

Aren't most dog attacks on humans done by Rottweiler's and Pit Bulls though?

It seems like at least 90% of the time I hear about a dog attacking a human its by one of these two breeds.

The breeds most likely to bite are smaller breeds, like cocker spaniels and Scottish terriers. The breeds most likely to injure someone badly enough that it makes the news are pit bulls and rottweilers.

Our previous rescue dog was a mix. We knew she had German shepherd and rottweiler in her. Later, seeing pictures of dogs that were mixed English terriers (pit bulls), it was clear she must have had pit bull in her too. So basically, she was a mix of all the most dangerous breeds. And she was a big suck, and never harmed our children or anyone else.

Now we have another rescue dog, four months old. Mostly German shepherd, with some Chow and maybe rottweiler. Her temperament is more aggressive than our previous dog, always nipping and jumping. With training, we'll hopefully put a lid on that behaviour. But you can never be sure. Like people, you can't condition any animal to behave however you want. They're all unique, and can have very strong innate characteristics that vary from individual to individual. Even within a single litter you'll get a range of behaviours, from the domineering alpha to the timid runt.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The breeds most likely to bite are smaller breeds, like cocker spaniels and Scottish terriers. The breeds most likely to injure someone badly enough that it makes the news are pit bulls and rottweilers.

Our previous rescue dog was a mix. We knew she had German shepherd and rottweiler in her. Later, seeing pictures of dogs that were mixed English terriers (pit bulls), it was clear she must have had pit bull in her too. So basically, she was a mix of all the most dangerous breeds. And she was a big suck, and never harmed our children or anyone else.

Now we have another rescue dog, four months old. Mostly German shepherd, with some Chow and maybe rottweiler. Her temperament is more aggressive than our previous dog, always nipping and jumping. With training, we'll hopefully put a lid on that behaviour. But you can never be sure. Like people, you can't condition any animal to behave however you want. They're all unique, and can have very strong innate characteristics that vary from individual to individual. Even within a single litter you'll get a range of behaviours, from the domineering alpha to the timid runt.

I've never met a nice Chow. But I hope yours is!

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I've never met a nice Chow. But I hope yours is!

Yep, it's the Chow.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I've never met a nice Chow. But I hope yours is!

Result of thousands of years of inbreeding right there.

[Knalus]

Isn't one of the biggest issues with Pit Bulls not just if they will attack, but how they attack, too? I remember reading Call of the Wild, and Pit Bulls, when they attack, bite and grip, then tear. Other dogs more often slash bite, and release. The Pit Bulls and their instinct about what to do in a fight, not so much the instinct to fight or not, is what makes them dangerous, no? Am I wrong? Just trying to understand.

[Coach]

Just came back from the park with my boy and had some interesting situations that kind of relate to the topic at hand.

Encountered a dog that mine has played with numerous times, I know the owner, and they generally play quite well together. The last couple times iIve seen him, I've noticed the dog jumping up at people quite a bit. It's a Boxer, which has similar reputation to Rotties or Shepherds, so it's not exactly cute, but I'm pretty comfortable just body checking it back to the ground. The owner, however, is not. He just turns his back every time it jumps at him and lets it hit him in the back. I didn't say anything, because well it's his dog.

Today, I see the dog and mine jogs up to it, but the owner's wife is the one walking it and I have never met her. She still has it on leash and it's literally dragging her around the park. I help her corral the dog and take the leash off so they can play together. The dog basically ignores mine and just starts jumping at me. Playfully, mind you, but I'm comfortable with this thing and I just kept shoving it back to the ground. If I was some random person, I would be freaked. This wasn't "give me a treat" sort of up on the hind legs, I mean full out launching itself at me. If my dog started doing that to some one he would be pinned to the ground before he could do it more than once and immediately taken home and shamed. So she leashes it again and apologizes, I'm pretty calm about the whole situation and just take my dog to a different park that's only a few blocks away and I was going there anyways.

But it made me think about the situation here. If you cannot physcially dominate your dog, it's too big for you. The grandma with the Rottweiler, not to make presumptions, but I'm guessing she'd have a tough time controlling it. If you're going to have a dog, particularly a big dog, you have to be prepared to fully control it. If I had any concern about the grandparents with the Rottweiler, it would be this.

On the other hand, I walk not 200 yards away and come across two women walking small dogs. Not quite chihuahua small, but close. I can see right away that one of the dogs is absolutely terrified of mine. Like, literally petrified by the time we were 20 feet away. I hold him and connect with owner, tell her my dog is very friendly and she gestures that it's ok so I let them meet; still having a taught grip on my dog. He barely gets close enough to smell the dog and it jumps at mine, biting and scratching his face. Mine just turns it's head and steps away calmly while these two dogs just yap incessently and viciously at mine. The owners apologize to me but don't reprimand the dogs at all. I don't care if you apologize to me, I'd rather see you teach your stupid dog a lesson. Again, if mine did that, it would be getting a slap upside the head, and make sure he knew I was pissed for probably the next two days. And that's if I was lucky enough that it didn't end up seriously injuring another dog and likely taken away from me.

In short. Control your dog. Huge or tiny, it's not okay for it to bark non-stop at anything that moves, it's not okay to let it jump at people (no matter the size). Watch it when it's off leash, and f***king do something to it when it's being an idiot. You think packs of wolves just let the idiot wolf be an idiot and laugh to each other about what an idiot it is? No, they put it in it's place.

[Clarkey]

Originally Posted by ken0042

It raises the question- why are the grandparents getting a rottie? In your case EG- I am guessing that you didn't go out in search of a rottie-cross; you wanted a dog and the dog you now have won your heart. I was the same way- I wanted a medium to big dog that I could play with; and not worry about hurting him.

For the grandparents, do they want one to protect the house? If so, if the dog is trained to protect the house the dog might be more inclined to act aggressively towards people coming up that the dog doesn't immediately recognize. I would be more concerned about why they say they want this kind of dog, as any dog they get and is trained to defend might be more likely to over-defend the house.

The grandparents are getting the dog to 'protect' my mother in law. The father in law likes to play rough with dogs and has no real interest in discipline or training. The 2 year old rottie they are looking at is 'on the market' because the dog is apparently causing havoc chasing livestock on a ranch (but the owner apparently claims it's a total lap dog). I think it's a great recipe for my kids getting their faces ripped off if you're going for that but I am not. I feel like a bit of a nerd for coming on the internet to seek validation but I think I have, so thank you.

For the record, I am not into banning breeds and find the commonly described character traits of Rotties to be overall quite redeeming given the owners are responsible and kids aren't around. My main issue is with them around my kids, especially given the wildcards I mentioned above. I had an older german shepherd that was abused and had behavioral issues from the get go that we had to watch like a hawk around the general public for her whole life and especially when our kids arrived so it's not like this is my first rodeo with dogs around kids.

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

The grandparents are getting the dog to 'protect' my mother in law. The father in law likes to play rough with dogs and has no real interest in discipline or training. The 2 year old rottie they are looking at is 'on the market' because the dog is apparently causing havoc chasing livestock on a ranch (but the owner apparently claims it's a total lap dog). I think it's a great recipe for my kids getting their faces ripped off if you're going for that but I am not. I feel like a bit of a nerd for coming on the internet to seek validation but I think I have, so thank you.

For the record, I am not into banning breeds and find the commonly described character traits of Rotties to be overall quite redeeming given the owners are responsible and kids aren't around. My main issue is with them around my kids, especially given the wildcards I mentioned above. I had an older german shepherd that was abused and had behavioral issues from the get go that we had to watch like a hawk around the general public for her whole life and especially when our kids arrived so it's not like this is my first rodeo with dogs around kids.

Based on what you just described,you're absolutely justified in keeping your children away from this dog, mind you, you didn't need justification to begin with, your kids, your rules. I honestly feel sorry for what may become of the rotti, it doesn't sound like a good situation, which is sad for the dog, and your children, because a well trained Rotti is very happy surrounded by kids, and kids love a happy rotti. Some of my fondest childhood memories are of riding my uncles rottweiler around the backyard. She was the most intimidating looking dog I've ever seen, looking at pictures of her now, but as a child, she was my personal, living teddy bear. Amazing dogs in the right situation, and nightmares in the wrong situation. Keep your kids safe.

[Coach]

Yeah that sounds like a bad situation.