Love the comment above that both parties are essentially the same. You'd have to be living in a bomb shelter for the past 4 decades without any signals from the outside world to think that.
Seriously. Look around for 10 seconds. There are major policy differences between the two parties.
There are definite ideological differences, but for the most part (and I mean the vastly most part) an average person's life will be no better depending on which party is in power. They all promise a ton and deliver a minuscule fraction of it. Personally when I suggest it's all the same, I mean that neither of these parties are really working for the average person. At least one of them isn't out to deny rights of certain people though.
Also, other than a couple handfuls, I doubt that a lot of these so called religious politicians are really religious. They know what they need to get votes and they pander, I doubt many are true believers.
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Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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There are definite ideological differences, but for the most part (and I mean the vastly most part) an average person's life will be no better depending on which party is in power. They all promise a ton and deliver a minuscule fraction of it. Personally when I suggest it's all the same, I mean that neither of these parties are really working for the average person. At least one of them isn't out to deny rights of certain people though.
Also, other than a couple handfuls, I doubt that a lot of these so called religious politicians are really religious. They know what they need to get votes and they pander, I doubt many are true believers.
Obama gave nearly 20 million Americans health care coverage. It may not be perfect, but to those 20 million people, I think they're much happier that Obama won the election instead of McCain/Romney.
I don't buy the argument that government doesn't impact daily lives. A poorly run government that gets distracted by ideological nonsense and has no interest in actually governing would ruin a lot of people's days.
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Its still so hilarious that Romney's state healthcare IS Obamacare and yet the Republicans fought tooth and nail against it, even Romney.
This party has become the party of of just say No to anything Obama tried to do, Ronald and Nancy would be proud.
This is why some people say Drumpf is the catalyst to fixing some of the US political problems. Trump will be so bad as president that this probably force a midterm defeat for the GOP in Congress/Senate and full term defeat that will blast past gerrymandering and force a rebuild of that party into a coherent political entity. So probably only two to four years of bad policies/embarrassment that can be unwound in a single term.
Under Clinton a scandal mired presidency would probably further entrench a GOP dominated Senate and Congress pushing at lease a decade of GOP political dominance.
Argument being that Trump will have to moderate to have a chance in the general and given that he has already flip flopped on many things, including debates, positions, etc. Trump is a smart man who knows how to manipulate a crowd, he'll do so readily moderate once campaigning for the general/in his presidency. Mind you his economic plan will be a small disaster into itself, but chances of him getting what he wants through the rest of gov't is minimal.
This is why some people say Drumpf is the catalyst to fixing some of the US political problems. Trump will be so bad as president that this probably force a midterm defeat for the GOP in Congress/Senate and full term defeat that will blast past gerrymandering and force a rebuild of that party into a coherent political entity. So probably only two to four years of bad policies/embarrassment that can be unwound in a single term.
The notion that Trump winning could be a "good thing" for liberals and progressives because the swing back will help them immensely is laughable because you assume he's a lock to be voted out. Reagan and Bush both got second terms...so yeah, he's not lock for anything. He could easily be a two term President. I actually think that's a crucial part of his success, that people keep assuming he can't do something. Then he does it and we wonder how it happened. Assuming Trump will go one and done is a mistake.
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
Totally worth a read. The Atlantic just never fails to be awesome. Seriously, this may be the best print outlet in the USA right now.
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The notion that Trump winning could be a "good thing" for liberals and progressives because the swing back will help them immensely is laughable because you assume he's a lock to be voted out. Reagan and Bush both got second terms...so yeah, he's not lock for anything. He could easily be a two term President. I actually think that's a crucial part of his success, that people keep assuming he can't do something. Then he does it and we wonder how it happened. Assuming Trump will go one and done is a mistake.
You assume he'll get a second term while being just a crazy as he is on the current campaign. Him winning a second term would require that he moderate his positions enough economically and socially to attract enough centrist votes and have a decent enough record while in office without enacting too much of his craziness into law.
His current platform is built on the backs of drug running, unicorn riding, wall jumping Mexican beings. Basically for him to get a second term he'd have to move a lot of his positions close to Clinton's current platform to steal a significant chunk of the progressive/centrist/minority vote (all of which already hate him) and run a relative scandal free first term. So a slightly foul mouthed fire brand mediocre president with a half decent record? If he becomes president, he either crashes and burns in his first term and blows up the GOP even worse than now or he moderates with a decent enough record to gain a second term. My money would be on him crashing, burning and rage quitting but your alternative is not too bad either.
Trump is clearly an ends justifies the means type of guy. If you could show him viable numbers that betraying his hardcore supporters (by abandoning the wall/Muslim ban) would win him the election, he'll be betraying them in short order. He doesn't have any true positions on anything except the media sucks and I should be able to sue everyone (and staunch support for eminent domain of course). He's....nothing. He has some very liberal positions, some very moderate positions, some fascist positions...he's undefinable as anything but, well, Trump.
At the end of the day, I suppose Donald Trump does stand for something: ego and nihilism. Which makes him really dangerous because he's adaptable to whatever is popular at the moment and isn't beholden to any standard set of principles we'd expect from a politician. If it helps him win, he'll do it basically. He'll change his mind within a sentence if need be. He can try and be everything to everyone because he's not anything except an ego.
And he won't be a moderate either, he'll be another GWB. Photon really nailed it but he doesn't want to actually be President, and do all that bull#### that comes with that. He wants to win the Presidency because he's a little child like that, but really he wants to make speeches and be the star and not do any of the actual hard, policy work. The GOP has warmed to him because they've figured out they can easily control him. Look at who he's surrounding himself with as part of his general election team: Tons of GOP establishment. Took them longer than they wanted no doubt, but they've figured out how to use him to their advantage.
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
This is a great interview about the state of the discourse down there.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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I understand completely why people are scared of Trump being President. I tend to agree with them.
I don't understand why anyone would pick Hillary over Sanders.
There is only one politician in the race who has his record to stand by, who isn't corrupt and who hasn't been bought and paid for by big money and special interests.
Everyone is saying Sanders supporters are being stubborn by refusing to vote for Hillary. I think Hillary supporters are delusional for supporting her when there is a much better candidate in the race.
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I've really become a big fan of Dave Rubin. He left TyT because of Cenk's people being part of the regressive right, and started his own channel which has been doing great stuff and very interesting interviews.
I understand completely why people are scared of Trump being President. I tend to agree with them.
I don't understand why anyone would pick Hillary over Sanders.
There is only one politician in the race who has his record to stand by, who isn't corrupt and who hasn't been bought and paid for by big money and special interests.
Everyone is saying Sanders supporters are being stubborn by refusing to vote for Hillary. I think Hillary supporters are delusional for supporting her when there is a much better candidate in the race.
^This. The Koch brothers that have so famously funded climate change denial "research", the GOP establishment, ultra conservative social issues on the GOP side also invested heavily into the Clinton campaign through their foundation with a total of $889 million split between Clinton's and GOP establishment campaigns. Since as Senator Clay Davis pointed out Drumpf will really just be a puppet for the GOP establishment at this point anyway. Where are Koch and co going to look for ROI on their investment?
If Trump becomes president we'll see GWB 2.0 with some left leaning social issues and really no change other than that aside from the occasional crazy rant. He's a narcissist and won't really do much to form policy which he will leave to the GOP establishment. There will be a lot of show, but nothing really to upset the corporate investments including Trumps personal investments.
Clinton has already shown she will say and do anything for an extra donor buck and has so many business IOUs, including to the Koch brothers donations and to her Kissinger doctrine pals, that we can expect a fair amount of right wing policy under her presidency tainted heavily by corporate conservative interests including those from the payday loan lobby. How can the regular voter expect any type of influence on government policy when they've been so heavily outspent on both apparent sides of the political spectrum by the same source of lobbying dollars? Where then is there space for a progressive voter looking for a candidate who will at least attempt to clean this up?
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I understand completely why people are scared of Trump being President. I tend to agree with them.
I don't understand why anyone would pick Hillary over Sanders.
There is only one politician in the race who has his record to stand by, who isn't corrupt and who hasn't been bought and paid for by big money and special interests.
Everyone is saying Sanders supporters are being stubborn by refusing to vote for Hillary. I think Hillary supporters are delusional for supporting her when there is a much better candidate in the race.
Sanders isn't bought and paid for because no one believed he could win. Wall Street money would come his way and he'd take it like he takes the gun money.
How many donations has he refused out of principle?
Somewhat unrelated to the current convo but still relevant to American politics, (and I'm going to post it in the movie recommendation thread too) but the new HBO movie "All the Way" about Lyndon B. Johnson's short term leading up to the election he wins is amazing. If you have Telus tv it should be in the On Demand section.
Seriously, it was Zakaria's "recommended book" this week on his Sunday show and he actually recommended watching this movie instead, so I did. It's awesome and from a historical perspective I learned quite a bit. It also did a good job of providing insight into American politics during that timeframe and it was an interesting contrast to what (I think) is happening today.
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Two veterans have an unexpected wild debate on Don Lemon (Carl Higbie and Perry O'Brien) Van Jones @VanJones68 Van Jones Retweeted naomi
.@Reince or @SpeakerRyan should denounce these comments & the hate-mongering veteran who spewed them.
Somewhat unrelated to the current convo but still relevant to American politics, (and I'm going to post it in the movie recommendation thread too) but the new HBO movie "All the Way" about Lyndon B. Johnson's short term leading up to the election he wins is amazing. If you have Telus tv it should be in the On Demand section.
Seriously, it was Zakaria's "recommended book" this week on his Sunday show and he actually recommended watching this movie instead, so I did. It's awesome and from a historical perspective I learned quite a bit. It also did a good job of providing insight into American politics during that timeframe and it was an interesting contrast to what (I think) is happening today.
I have it recorded and want to watch it this weekend. The greatest thing about LBJ. The lean and how he used it
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
