Alberta Politics Thread

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bunk

I really hope this is the case, especially of our own Calgary-based companies. Is there any evidence of this yet? I've heard international companies like Total and others are positioning themselves that way, but I haven't heard anything about companies that are Calgary-based. I hope we start future-proofing ourselves soon. It feels like the future is electric, and (cleaner) electricity production, transmission is where the opportunity is.

I understand that, but electricity is not an energy source, it is a result of other sources.

[AltaGuy]

My point was that energy companies in Canada were diligent in lobbying the Harper government for cuts to certain science programs run by the federal government, not that there is a vast conspiracy of "big oil". I am far from anti - oil, but carry on...

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by Bunk

I really hope this is the case, especially of our own Calgary-based companies. Is there any evidence of this yet? I've heard international companies like Total and others are positioning themselves that way, but I haven't heard anything about companies that are Calgary-based. I hope we start future-proofing ourselves soon. It feels like the future is electric, and (cleaner) electricity production, transmission is where the opportunity is.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...rgy-solar-wind

Like any investment, some of these guys have experienced some failures with investing in the alternative energy sector, and backed out, but they are certainly keeping their toes in the water.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

My point was that energy companies in Canada were diligent in lobbying the Harper government for cuts to certain science programs run by the federal government, not that there is a vast conspiracy of "big oil". I am far from anti - oil, but carry on...

You have examples of this?

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by Locke

And in the 70s there was a carburetor that got 50 miles per gallon and thats never been seen again.

You speak of my '76 Honda Civic I was lucky enough to own in high school. You couldn't kill that thing no matter how hard it was driven, and I got a lot of places on pocket change.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

You speak of my '76 Honda Civic I was lucky enough to own in high school. You couldn't kill that thing no matter how hard it was driven, and I got a lot of places on pocket change.

Alright ladies and gentlemem, LFG asked for it so here it is. Please buckle up, return your seats to their full upright and locked positiona and stow your trays: its tinfoil hat time!

Perhaps, just perhaps, the 'Big Oil' Cabal petitioned the Government to make cars safer so that they werent just tin cans with just a couple of seats and a wheel in a petition to make them bigger and heavier, thus necessarily making engines bigger and consuming more fuel.

And this was obviously done at the behest of the Lizard-men.

Mind. Blown.

Its what 'they' dont want you to know!

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Locke

I understand that, but electricity is not an energy source, it is a result of other sources.

What I meant is, it seems things that operate from oil and gas (e.g. private transportation), will eventually be electric. That's why the next statement was about "production", which comes through a variety of methods.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

https://www.theguardian.com/business...rgy-solar-wind

Like any investment, some of these guys have experienced some failures with investing in the alternative energy sector, and backed out, but they are certainly keeping their toes in the water.

It's interesting to ponder. This is something that sometimes literally keeps me up at night. What of our future here in Calgary if the transition happens and we get left behind? It seems like the political and economic tipping point is not that far off into the future.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Bunk

What of our future here in Calgary if the transition happens and we get left behind?

Winnipeg with mountains?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Sorry man that's harsh, Mrs Klein is a high school graduate and a University drop out, who only revs up the rhetoric when there is a book to sell or a movie to promote, with those credentials I can't fathom how you can't see she is an expert on the science of climate change and her every word and idea should be implemented as policy, because policy is how we fix things.

Agreed. I don't trust her opinion because she doesn't have the credentials, among other reasons.

But! When the people with all the credentials give us warnings and unpleasant predictions and connect the dots between disasters and the climate change we are all causing, we pretty much dismiss them too.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Bunk

I really hope this is the case, especially of our own Calgary-based companies. Is there any evidence of this yet? I've heard international companies like Total and others are positioning themselves that way, but I haven't heard anything about companies that are Calgary-based. I hope we start future-proofing ourselves soon. It feels like the future is electric, and (cleaner) electricity production, transmission is where the opportunity is.

Off the top of my head, TransAlta has a subsidiary called TransAlta Renewables. They aren't the only ones.

[Resolute 14]

Oh, and "big oil" suppressing clean tech is as idiotic as thinking "big pharma" is suppressing a cure for cancer.

"Big Oil" has traditionally preferred O&G over renewables because it was more profitable. As oil continues to increase in cost to produce and renewables become cheaper (especially via subsidies), that balance will continue to shift.

Conspiracy isn't the nutjob's boogeyman. Capitalism is.

[Coach]

Why should we wait until it's profitable? What does that really matter in the context of preserving the envirnoment in which our speicies lives?

It's like we're kids fighting over lego pieces while the room burns around us, and all we have to do is forget about the lego and pull the f***ing alarm.

[Fuzz]

TransCanada Pipelines has some solar assets. Not sure if they have wind as well.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Why should we wait until it's profitable? What does that really matter in the context of preserving the envirnoment in which our speicies lives?

It's like we're kids fighting over lego pieces while the room burns around us, and all we have to do is forget about the lego and pull the f***ing alarm.

Because they're a business and not a social program. They're going to supply a demand while the demand is there. Why are consumers waiting to stop using fossil fuels?

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Why should we wait until it's profitable? What does that really matter in the context of preserving the envirnoment in which our speicies lives?

Profit is an indicator of how much resources you need. The less profit, the more resources you need and the less you have available for something else.

Many millions may die from climate change in the future, but many millions today already die and even more have poorer quality of life due to a lack of access to cheap energy.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by nik-

Because they're a business and not a social program. They're going to supply a demand while the demand is there. Why are consumers waiting to stop using fossil fuels?

I really believe this is an issue that should transcend the market demand. The market also demands high-end game machines, cell phones, hairless backs and no bald men, but what does any of that crap matter? What's this magical power we give it that says we just have to do what as the market does? We have the knowledge, we have the resources to this and other incredible things, but just don't. It's so frustrating. Let's pool some stuff together and get this done.

And this whole debacle is just proof that "the market" is not always the true market. They withhold supply to drive up price, they flood the market to drop price. The suppliers control the market, not "demand". Gold, diamonds, precious metals all the way down the list. The scarcity of these things is largely artificial.

Originally Posted by accord1999

Profit is an indicator of how much resources you need. The less profit, the more resources you need and the less you have available for something else.

Many millions may die from climate change in the future, but many millions today already die and even more have poorer quality of life due to a lack of access to cheap energy.

My issue is, a lot of the "something else" seems to be completely meaningless when put in the context of, as you said, potentially millions of deaths.
And many of the ones that happen now are preventable as well, if it wasn't for following the invisible hand like a deity. Clean water for people who need it. Food in places of famine. Cheap energy in remote areas. Proper medical care and housing for everyone. Basic education for our whole species. I believe this stuff could be happening, but because these things get priced out of attability for the majority of the population we just "can't do it." No, we can. We just don't. There's this thing engrained into us that just needs to have more than everyone else.

I honestly think a lot of people are just afraid of the idea of free energy and what it means. Everything would have to change and nobody knows would happen, but THAT's the market I want to see. What does a demand economy look like when energy is free?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I really believe this is an issue that should transcend the market demand. The market also demands high-end game machines, cell phones, hairless backs and no bald men, but what does any of that crap matter? What's this magical power we give it that says we just have to do what as the market does? We have the knowledge, we have the resources to this and other incredible things, but just don't. It's so frustrating. Let's pool some stuff together and get this done.

And this whole debacle is just proof that "the market" is not always the true market. They withhold supply to drive up price, they flood the market to drop price. The suppliers control the market, not "demand". Gold, diamonds, precious metals all the way down the list. The scarcity of these things is largely artificial.

Demand controls the market now. The days of OPEC turning off an on pipes to control the market are gone. An explosion in production surpassed demand which caused a price fall until the economics of production no longer were valid, now they're starting to balance out again.

It's all numbers, and businesses and consumers will continue to use the economics that favour them until another method favours them.

Oil companies produce and sell oil for the same reason not everyone immediately bought a Tesla S. Their bottom line.

The move from coal to nuclear will greatly impact emissions too, where's the pressure to go nuclear?

[peter12]

Markets are ultimately just made up of people, Matty.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Bunk

It's interesting to ponder. This is something that sometimes literally keeps me up at night. What of our future here in Calgary if the transition happens and we get left behind? It seems like the political and economic tipping point is not that far off into the future.

It's hilarious how we all think we know what the future holds or have a general idea of the direction that the future is heading towards. I had friends 10 years ago that were literally kept up at night because of peak oil theory and how were were at the precipice of the end of the oil age due to dwindling oil supplies. I personally wouldn't sweat it (I'm not saying O&G will always be here for us, just that there's plenty of paths the future could take that we can't wrap our heads around right now). At lot of stupid decisions get made going all in and preparing for a certain future that doesn't come. Sometimes there's a great advantage to not being the first mover on things.

It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

-Mark Twain