2016 NHL Draft

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Not sure why Julien Gauthier is getting so much love. He's going to be picked after the first 15 picks and rightly so as he's the type of guy you see later in first rounds that aren't a complete package. You don't have a terrible season like the Flames just had to make a ridiculous move like trading back to pick the type of prospect that is available annually to the playoff teams in the back half of the first round. When you stink you owe it to the organization to utilize the high pick you earned with poor play and take one of the best talents in the draft. The Flames have three 2nd round picks to which they can reach to their hearts content but they have to get the first one right and picking Julien Gauthier would be a horrendous mistake.

It would be a mistake to pick Gauthier 6th but people are now looking at his low assist total last season like he's a puck hog or something, yes he's a goal scorer first and could improve his passing but after his injury last year he also didn't make it back to the top line because because Val d'Or Foreurs was rolling and I assume the coach didn't want to ruffle feathers.

I heard of this kid last year (BTW he had 35 assists then) from what I'm told he's a physical beast who skates threw people with an explosive stride, great hands and shot, above average IQ and a tireless worker along the boards.

Again, he had a tough season with an injury, but he was top 10 on most lists in December and I for one would love to see the flames grab him. but not at 6.

[MarkGio]

The 2004 Flames would never repeat that run in today's hockey. There's no more 4th lines carrying 2 goons. No more purely energetic 3rd lines. No more purely shut down defenseman on every pair. No more dump and chase champions. Trap champions.

Look at the two contenders and compare to the 04' Flames. That old squad had a brick wall, a rookie offensive defenseman, a top pairing shut down defenseman, and the best scoring winger in the game. But thats all they had, and you cant win nowadays with so little talent in the depths. That's like a team with Price, Stamkos, Ghost, and Hamonic. And the rest of the team filled with spare parts. No way they would beat either San Jose or Pittsburgh

[MarkGio]

The 2004 Flames would never repeat that run in today's hockey. There's no more 4th lines carrying 2 goons. No more purely energetic 3rd lines. No more purely shut down defenseman on every pair. No more dump and chase champions. Trap champions.

Look at the two contenders and compare to the 04' Flames. That old squad had a brick wall, a rookie offensive defenseman, a top pairing shut down defenseman, and the best scoring winger in the game. But thats all they had, and you cant win nowadays with so little talent in the depths. That's like a team with Price, Stamkos, Ghost, and Hamonic. And the rest of the team filled with spare parts. No way they would beat either San Jose or Pittsburgh

I don't want to build another 04 Flames and their identity. I want an 04 TB Lightning, or a 06 Ducks or 09 Penguins or whoever else won a cup. Not a club who didn't.

[Krynn]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If the Flames go skill over size (whether thats Nylander, Jost, Keller, etc.), I am ready to trust their judgment.

Me 2

[Krynn]

Hell I hope brown drops to us in the second round so we could take him with one of our seconds.But I am almost certain that he will not make it out of the first round .

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Krynn

Hell I hope brown drops to us in the second round so we could take him with one of our seconds.But I am almost certain that he will not make it out of the first round .

Brown won't make it past 12 at the very latest and will probably go 8th or 9th, possibly higher. No way he makes it to the second round.

[Trailer Fire]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

What?? Shades of Hall? You are totally off on that, Nylander is considered a high hockey IQ player. Hall, not so much. I think you are arguing against Nylander because you don't like the player. That is fine but don't make stuff up about him when every pro scout has said otherwise.

I don't like the player. This is true. That is exactly why I'm arguing against him.

I've seen him make a few boneheaded plays. Maybe not exactly as dumb as Hall, but I feel he doesn't think the game well in his own end.

[Wolfman]

I can't wait to see how the actual draft unfolds with all these predictions, this guy won't make it passed this spot and this guy will fall. Can't come soon enough!

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Trailer Fire

I don't like the player. This is true. That is exactly why I'm arguing against him.

I've seen him make a few boneheaded plays. Maybe not exactly as dumb as Hall, but I feel he doesn't think the game well in his own end.

How many do at this stage of their career? If he did he'd be a top 3 pick with his offensive talent.

Most of these guys have been the go to guys on their teams growing up with little attention to defence. That will come moving forward.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by T@T

It would be a mistake to pick Gauthier 6th but people are now looking at his low assist total last season like he's a puck hog or something, yes he's a goal scorer first and could improve his passing but after his injury last year he also didn't make it back to the top line because because Val d'Or Foreurs was rolling and I assume the coach didn't want to ruffle feathers.

I heard of this kid last year (BTW he had 35 assists then) from what I'm told he's a physical beast who skates threw people with an explosive stride, great hands and shot, above average IQ and a tireless worker along the boards.

Again, he had a tough season with an injury, but he was top 10 on most lists in December and I for one would love to see the flames grab him. but not at 6.

Not saying he's a bad player but the Flames aren't picking in the teens. There are much better prospects available at 6.

[Trailer Fire]

Lots of top end picks have been defensively responsible before getting drafted. Couturier in 2011. Brendan Guance in 2012 was called the best defensive forward in the draft if I recall. Lindholm, Monahan, and Horvat were all considered excellent 2-way forwards.

I know that several of players have developed a 2-way game as well despite their scouting report. I recall Seguin having more question marks on defence than Hall at the time of the draft. I simply put more faith into Nylander staying the course, rather than developing defensively.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Trailer Fire

Lots of top end picks have been defensively responsible before getting drafted. Couturier in 2011. Brendan Guance in 2012 was called the best defensive forward in the draft if I recall. Lindholm, Monahan, and Horvat were all considered excellent 2-way forwards.

I know that several of players have developed a 2-way game as well despite their scouting report. I recall Seguin having more question marks on defence than Hall at the time of the draft. I simply put more faith into Nylander staying the course, rather than developing defensively.

Couturier looks to have a lower offensive ceiling because of that and Gaunce doesn't seem to have enough offensive skill to be a difference maker in the NHL. You can teach 2-way play but elite skill cannot be taught. IMO a 2-way game is more a "nice to have" in a top prospect than a need to have.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Not saying he's a bad player but the Flames aren't picking in the teens. There are much better prospects available at 6.

Is there a better player available if you are the Flames? That is all that matters. For instance, if you were trying to win a playoff series against a California team, which player is going to be more important? A small skilled player that doesn't do good in the trenches, or a big guy that plays a physical game and goes through people? The Flames need more of the later than they do the former. Edmonton drafted the purely skill players for years and where has that got them? Gauthier on the wing is pure win for this club. Gives extra life to guys like Shinkaruk and Mangipane, who may be too small in the bigger scheme of things.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by New Era

Is there a better player available if you are the Flames? That is all that matters. For instance, if you were trying to win a playoff series against a California team, which player is going to be more important? A small skilled player that doesn't do good in the trenches, or a big guy that plays a physical game and goes through people? The Flames need more of the later than they do the former. Edmonton drafted the purely skill players for years and where has that got them? Gauthier on the wing is pure win for this club. Gives extra life to guys like Shinkaruk and Mangipane, who may be too small in the bigger scheme of things.

Sharks did fine against the Kings with their best players in Couture and Pavelski being smaller players. Lightning are successful annually in the playoffs with a small group of forwards. That stuff is overrated as the Flames sucked against the Ducks since 2006 which were amongst the larger Flames teams. Again the Flames aren't picking 16 so Gauthier simply isn't an option as he would be extremely poor value being taken in the top 10 and the Flames aren't going to trade down given all the 2nd round picks they already have.

Besides Getzlaf, Perry are getting past their prime and Kopitar and Carter are also on the back half of their prime and you are picking players today with the future in mind and by the time a guy drafted this year is in his prime the Kings and Ducks aren't going to look like the teams you see today. I would hope the Flames management is smarter than this.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Sharks did fine against the Kings with their best players in Couture and Pavelski being smaller players. Lightning are successful annually in the playoffs with a small group of forwards. That stuff is overrated as the Flames sucked against the Ducks since 2006 which were amongst the larger Flames teams. Again the Flames aren't picking 16 so Gauthier simply isn't an option as he would be extremely poor value being taken in the top 10 and the Flames aren't going to trade down given all the 2nd round picks they already have.

Besides Getzlaf, Perry are getting past their prime and Kopitar and Carter are also on the back half of their prime and you are picking players today with the future in mind and by the time a guy drafted this year is in his prime the Kings and Ducks aren't going to look like the teams you see today. I would hope the Flames management is smarter than this.

Couture is not small. Pavelski does not play a small game. Claiming both of these guys as "small" players means you don't understand what "small" or "big" players are. Size isn't everything, but it does mean a lot in the bigger picture. Small players are fine if they play a big game, or a heavy game. Big players that don't use their size are just as much of a problem. What you really want is a player with a big frame that can play a big game. That is optimal. Sam Bennett and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins are close to being the same size. Which one is the bigger player? I'll give you a clue. One doesn't go by the nickname "The Tenderness." In this draft the Flames need to pick the bigger player.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by New Era

Couture is not small. Pavelski does not play a small game. Claiming both of these guys as "small" players means you don't understand what "small" or "big" players are. Size isn't everything, but it does mean a lot in the bigger picture. Small players are fine if they play a big game, or a heavy game. Big players that don't use their size are just as much of a problem. What you really want is a player with a big frame that can play a big game. That is optimal. Sam Bennett and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins are close to being the same size. Which one is the bigger player? I'll give you a clue. One doesn't go by the nickname "The Tenderness." In this draft the Flames need to pick the bigger player.

Couture is an optimistic 6 feet tall and not a big player and if you think he's not small then you think Nylander is not small as he's likely going to be taller when he's done growing. No the Flames need to pick the best player not the biggest. You have taken a liking to a prospect that simply isn't going to be in the conversation for the Flames at 6 so there's no amount of arguing you can do to change the fact that I don't believe he's even a consideration and nor should he.

The Flames needing to pick the bigger player got them Hunter Smith when Christian Dvorak was there for the taking.

[jmac98]

Originally Posted by New Era

Couture is not small. Pavelski does not play a small game. Claiming both of these guys as "small" players means you don't understand what "small" or "big" players are. Size isn't everything, but it does mean a lot in the bigger picture. Small players are fine if they play a big game, or a heavy game. Big players that don't use their size are just as much of a problem. What you really want is a player with a big frame that can play a big game. That is optimal. Sam Bennett and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins are close to being the same size. Which one is the bigger player? I'll give you a clue. One doesn't go by the nickname "The Tenderness." In this draft the Flames need to pick the bigger player.

If players are ranked within close proximity to one another and one fellow is small of stature with the other being a heavy body, then there's credence to your argument. But Gauthier isn't in the mix at 6. In fact he's 3x further down the depth chart for the draft. You can't reach this far down in the first round skipping 10-15+ on the draft order just to get a guy because he's big.

Edmonton's perils weren't just because they drafted skill. It's because they ignored building around it and forgot that there's defence and goalies on the ice as well.

I like Gauthier and whomever gets him will be happy. But he's not in consideration at 6th. It would be a mistake to overlook the 10+ players to get him with your early/first round pick.

[JJ1532]

The constant going round in circles over the size argument is driving me crazy. How far away is the draft again?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by jmac98

If players are ranked within close proximity to one another and one fellow is small of stature with the other being a heavy body, then there's credence to your argument. But Gauthier isn't in the mix at 6. In fact he's 3x further down the depth chart for the draft. You can't reach this far down in the first round skipping 10-15+ on the draft order just to get a guy because he's big.

Edmonton's perils weren't just because they drafted skill. It's because they ignored building around it and forgot that there's defence and goalies on the ice as well.

I like Gauthier and whomever gets him will be happy. But he's not in consideration at 6th. It would be a mistake to overlook the 10+ players to get him with your early/first round pick.

You're making the assumption that the Flames list is the same as Bob McKenzie's. I don't make that assumption. I think the Flames have their own list and they will pick the best player available on that list. Frankly, I think there are a few players on Bob McKenzie's list that are not on the Flames list. I would suspect the same across the league. That's one of the biggest problems with discussing the draft is that there are some people that think there is some consensus list that the teams all follow. Team A has to pick this player because he's in slot B, and not picking him would be a massive mistake! Really? What if Team A thinks player B is huge holes in his game that cannot be addressed, or he just isn't an organizational fit? Does that player still end up on Team A's list, because Bob McKenzie said he should be there? The Flames will pick the player they think is the best fit, regardless of some fantasy list. If that player is Julien Gauthier I will not be disappointed. I doubt I will be disappointed with anyone they pick, because I believe their scouts are doing a great job in evaluating talent and they will make the right selection.

[jmac98]

Originally Posted by New Era

You're making the assumption that the Flames list is the same as Bob McKenzie's. I don't make that assumption. I think the Flames have their own list and they will pick the best player available on that list. Frankly, I think there are a few players on Bob McKenzie's list that are not on the Flames list. I would suspect the same across the league. That's one of the biggest problems with discussing the draft is that there are some people that think there is some consensus list that the teams all follow. Team A has to pick this player because he's in slot B, and not picking him would be a massive mistake! Really? What if Team A thinks player B is huge holes in his game that cannot be addressed, or he just isn't an organizational fit? Does that player still end up on Team A's list, because Bob McKenzie said he should be there? The Flames will pick the player they think is the best fit, regardless of some fantasy list. If that player is Julien Gauthier I will not be disappointed. I doubt I will be disappointed with anyone they pick, because I believe their scouts are doing a great job in evaluating talent and they will make the right selection.

I'm actually making the assumption that most teams and their scouts would have a reasonably similar list this high up in the draft ranks. Of course it's not going to be identical from team to team as you read down the list, however, the same names and faces should be appearing in close proximity this high up in the draft, just in a different order, or otherwise not far removed from that placement. But if 1 team has a guy 6th and the general consensus is he's say 18th or whatever (not just Bob MacKenzie does rankings), then it raises eyebrows to the outlier group's scouting staff. See, Mark Jankowski.

I don't mind reaching for players, but that seems a strategy better utilized for later rounds, or if not, at least later in the first round. When you have the #6 pick, you have to hit a home run, not roll the dice.