Flames eye Tkachuk at Memorial Cup, make final preparations for combine

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Delthefunky

Keith Tkachunk? didn't realize they were related.

Yeah, wasn't he suspended once until he lost weight.

[N26]

My problem with Nylander, perhaps like many here of a certain age, is Michael.

Michael Nylander was practically the dictionary definition of soft. Disappeared when the intensity went up, gave away the puck rather than go to the dirty areas or take a hit, lost a lot of one-on-one battles and was a stick checker whose forechecking skills were mostly limited to fly-by poke checks. And his best statistical seasons are when he was playing with guys like Jagr in Washington & New York. Jagr benefited from his great passing no doubt but Jagr drove the play. When Nylander lacked a strong linemate or two he was often invisible

When William became a thing and now Alex my instinctive reaction is "Ugh, God please no,not again!." It is unfair because I've seen very little of their play but I see a similar frame on both of them and I assume that Michael had a large influence in their playing style and I fear what it might mean.

If we do draft him I'm not going to be comfortable with it until he fights at least 2 Oiler goons in the Penticton tourney.

So if Tkachuk and Dubois are gone and the right thing to do is draft the most skilled guy I am firmly in the Clayton Keller camp. Even smaller than Nylander but to my eye and based on what I've read, more skilled more likely to handle the grind. Or Jost or Mcleod or Chychryn. Maybe Brown or Juolevi. I am pretty close to anybody but Nylander.

I just don't want another Nylander

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

All this talk of Nemisz makes me recall first game I saw him play. He had been drafted by the Flames and made the world junior team. Canada beat one of the second rate countries about 15 to zero. Nemisz was invisible and IIRC got not a single point. I thought that was a pretty bad sign and sure enough...

Greg Nemisz might have been the low point in the pit of doom that has been the Flames drafting ability over the last couple of decades. Usually you can read up on a guy, and find something to be excited about....but that was a pick that just felt mediocre, and without any ambition, right off the bat. The only one that felt as flat was the Chucko pick.

And it's not like those were terrible drafts like 1999. Both had some solid options picked soon after.

The whole 2000's was such wasted decade in the first round. A decade of Nemisz, Chucko, Pellech, Erixon, Irving, Krahn. There were only 3 picks (Backlund, Phaneuf, Nystrom) you could argue for as being solid, and two of those assets were eventually wasted.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

See, now you're defensive mechanisms have clouded your ability to separate an imaginative world with one that is closer to reality.

When has Gaudreau ever took a hit to make a play? He's probably the most slippery player in the league. I'm not sure what dirty areas you're talking about, but you rarely see Gaudreau lying on the ice. Sometimes criticism allows you to love and appreciate something more. Just because I said Gaudreau is soft doesn't mean I can't appreciate what he does or that makes me a fan of the Flames any less, but I couldn't truly appreciate a player like Bennett, who winds up on his ass everytime he goes to the net, if I was blindly believing every Flames player is tough as grit.

Besides, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being soft. For a guy like Gaudreau its survival and it's smart. It would be ######ed for Gaudreau to throw his body around and be taking hits. Watching his survival technique is a treat. You're missing out.

I think we have different definitions of soft. One is "not physical", which is a good description of Gaudreau but is not a negative in his case, just a description. The more common definition is used as a negative - a player who shies away from contact and disappears when games get more intense.

[albertGQ]

I find it odd that some don't want Nylander because of his last name.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

I find it odd that some don't want Nylander because of his last name.

Sort of like some saying they wouldn't want Tkachuk because they thought his dad was a jerk.

[CliffFletcher]

With Nylander it isn't just the name, it's the stories about his dad meddling in his son's careers, and his brother William being a prima donna. There's just an aura of softness and entitlement around the family that raises red flags.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

With Nylander it isn't just the name, it's the stories about his dad meddling in his son's careers, and his brother William being a prima donna. There's just an aura of softness and entitlement around the family that raises red flags.

Fortunately we wouldn't be drafting the whole family.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

With Nylander it isn't just the name, it's the stories about his dad meddling in his son's careers, and his brother William being a prima donna. There's just an aura of softness and entitlement around the family that raises red flags.

What stories? Can you please point me to some?

So far Williams has come over the NA, paid his dues in the AHL. Got destroyed in the World Junior tournament. Don't remember hearing any negativity from him.

Alexander also has come over to NA and played juniors in Canada. Don't think I've heard any stories there either.

People make too much of the family meddling in these kids lives. Guess what they are the parents and will help them make decisions, just like our parents did. Heck, these guys are moving to a new continent to play hockey where their dad played number of years. I'm sure their dad might have a pointer or two to tell HIS KIDS. Gaudreau family was no different, looking out for his BEST interest in their opinion.

[N26]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

Sort of like some saying they wouldn't want Tkachuk because they thought his dad was a jerk.

I did say I was being unfair.

It is about my instinctive reaction to drafting Nylander and how it always leads to my feelings about Michael.

Now that you mention it Keith Tkachuk was a bit of a jerk. Anybody know Dubois' father?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by N26

My problem with Nylander, perhaps like many here of a certain age, is Michael.

Michael Nylander was practically the dictionary definition of soft. Disappeared when the intensity went up, gave away the puck rather than go to the dirty areas or take a hit, lost a lot of one-on-one battles and was a stick checker whose forechecking skills were mostly limited to fly-by poke checks. And his best statistical seasons are when he was playing with guys like Jagr in Washington & New York. Jagr benefited from his great passing no doubt but Jagr drove the play. When Nylander lacked a strong linemate or two he was often invisible

When William became a thing and now Alex my instinctive reaction is "Ugh, God please no,not again!." It is unfair because I've seen very little of their play but I see a similar frame on both of them and I assume that Michael had a large influence in their playing style and I fear what it might mean.

If we do draft him I'm not going to be comfortable with it until he fights at least 2 Oiler goons in the Penticton tourney.

So if Tkachuk and Dubois are gone and the right thing to do is draft the most skilled guy I am firmly in the Clayton Keller camp. Even smaller than Nylander but to my eye and based on what I've read, more skilled more likely to handle the grind. Or Jost or Mcleod or Chychryn. Maybe Brown or Juolevi. I am pretty close to anybody but Nylander.

I just don't want another Nylander

My goodness just because his kids inherited his skills doesn't mean they are carbon copies of their father. Are you essentially a clone of your father? Does your mother's genes not count for anything or your own ability to be your own man? Some of this talk is nonsense.

I despised Keith Tkachuk and Tie Domi but would have zero reservations of their sons playing on the Flames just as I would be completely fine with them picking Alex.

[Azhouse]

I saw Tkachuk play Tuesday and was unimpressed (it was only one game though). I thought he floated through most of it and was extremely slow getting back in the play. No thanks. I hope Edmonton takes him...Dvorak most definitely carried the play on that line. Juolevi looked good as well.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Azhouse

I saw Tkachuk play Tuesday and was unimpressed (it was only one game though). I thought he floated through most of it and was extremely slow getting back in the play. No thanks. I hope Edmonton takes him...Dvorak most definitely carried the play on that line. Juolevi looked good as well.

I have to say Dvorak is the guy on that line that has impressed me the most. Good find for the Coyotes.

[Azhouse]

Tkachuk got his first on the powerplay after Juolevi played a nice game of keepaway at the blue line (very impressive) and basically bounced it off him. The other was an empty netter. The buddy that I was sitting with who has played a ton of hockey (as well as watched he son play to a high level) stated Tkachuk has no where near an NHL level of skating (as also noted by Tod Button).

Button's playing a shell game.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

What stories? Can you please point me to some?

So far Williams has come over the NA, paid his dues in the AHL. Got destroyed in the World Junior tournament. Don't remember hearing any negativity from him.

Alexander also has come over to NA and played juniors in Canada. Don't think I've heard any stories there either.

People make too much of the family meddling in these kids lives. Guess what they are the parents and will help them make decisions, just like our parents did. Heck, these guys are moving to a new continent to play hockey where their dad played number of years. I'm sure their dad might have a pointer or two to tell HIS KIDS. Gaudreau family was no different, looking out for his BEST interest in their opinion.

I don't think you'd call it meddling but Alexander's dad does coach him in the OHL. Even so though that doesn't mean Michael doesn't see the advantage of playing a more physical game and encouraging his son to play that way.

[druetetective]

Iv'e watched the Spitfires for decades and trust me Tkachuk is nothing like Nemisz.

I was so dissapointed at the time. I remember saying Henrique and Loktionov would have more pro success. (I was right).

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah to me comparing Tkachuk to Nemisz doesn't work. IIRC Nemisz never played on the first line. He was 2nd line RW or third line centre in Windsor. Nemisz was Colborne light. He was soft and never used his size in the pros and so bombed.

Anyways he's now an assistant coach for the Oshawa Generals.

I don't think people are saying his playing style is similar to Nemisz. The worry is that Tkachuk could be a player whose value is over-inflated by the fact that he's surrounded by really good players, like Nemisz was. Away from his powerhouse team it soon became apparent Nemisz didn't live up to the press clippings. What makes some of us worry is some posts have suggested Tkachuk already has identifiable weaknesses, e.g. skating.
Contrast with Monahan- standout skill on a poor junior team - an easy pick at 6th.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah, wasn't he suspended once until he lost weight.

I was chatting to a volunteer the other night at the game. His job is to control access in and out of the media end of the rink, east end.

He said this huge guy came up and said he was supposed to be interviewed on TV. Buddy asked for his pass and the big told him didn't have one. The volunteer told him there was no way he was getting in. It went back and forth for a while until finally SN employee came down to confirm that it was Keith Tkachuk.

Spoiler!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

What stories? Can you please point me to some?

There were several comments in the draft previews of controversies in Sweden over Michael meddling in his son's coaching, and of William being regarded in Sweden as a primma donna who didn't play a team game. I didn't just dream up those comments. But I can't be arsed to look them up, so I suppose you'll just have to trust me.

[druetetective]

I've said it before I think Tkachuk will develop into a Wayne Simmonds/ JVR type player.

Brown I could see being like a RNH. Soft 55 point playmaking center.

Nylander I'm starting to come around on after watching a lot of shift isolation videos. Problem is he doesn't bring any "black and blue qualities".

My final OHL ranking would be:

Tkachuk
Sergachev
Nylander
Chychrun
Brown
Juolevi
Jones
Mcleod

first 6 are incredibly close, I'd be all for trading down if we could pick up a 2nd++