Return of Full Deposit for Cancelled Custom Project?

[WhiteTiger]

A couple years back, I decided to get a full length special style of coat made for my wife by a local seamstress. A price was decided on, and roughly 30% of the (not insignificant) cost was put down as a deposit.

Over the course of the two years (the seamstress had some personal issues that needed dealing with) there have been multiple fittings, mock-up's, material tests, etc

The seamstress today wrote my wife a facebook message (their primary method of communication) saying that she no longer feels that she is capable of continuing the project and is backing out. She noted that she would be refunding the deposit, but didn't say how much of it she'd be returning.

Should I be asking for the full deposit returned? Should I not mention an amount to be returned, and just see what she does? Does a deposit like this cover pre-construction materials and labor or is that on the seamstress?

I'm actually kinda lost on this one. I don't want to be a jerk...but I also feel we've been more than understanding (this is a project initially projected to take 3-4 months, not 2+years) so I'm not really sure where I stand on this.

[blankall]

If it's a project that she has partially started, and you can get another seamstress to complete at a reduced price, I'd give her a break. Particularly if she having genuine issues.

Otherwise I'd demand it all back, assuming it's 100% her fault that the project is not being completed.

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

A couple years back, I decided to get a full length special style of coat made for my wife by a local seamstress. A price was decided on, and roughly 30% of the (not insignificant) cost was put down as a deposit.

Over the course of the two years (the seamstress had some personal issues that needed dealing with) there have been multiple fittings, mock-up's, material tests, etc

The seamstress today wrote my wife a facebook message (their primary method of communication) saying that she no longer feels that she is capable of continuing the project and is to backing out. She noted that she would be refunding the deposit, but didn't say how much of it she'd be returning.

Should I be asking for the full deposit returned? Should I not mention an amount to be returned, and just see what she does? Does a deposit like this cover pre-construction materials and labor or is that on the seamstress?

I'm actually kinda lost on this one. I don't want to be a jerk...but I also feel we've been more than understanding (this is a project initially projected to take 3-4 months, not 2+years) so I'm not really sure where I stand on this.

I'd expect the full deposit back.

[skudr248]

What kind of money are we talking here?

[wontondestruction]

The only type of coat I can think of that would take 3-4 months would look like this... Does she go by the nickname Buffalo Bill, by any chance?

NSFW!

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I would characterize this as a "down payment". If you don't receive the goods, you are entitled to a down payment back. Deposits are a little more difficult, as deposits could technically be retained (or at least partially retained). I realize that sounds like semantics, but there is a difference between how security deposits and down payments are treated. I would still ask for all of it back, either way.

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by wontondestruction

The only type of coat I can think of that would take 3-4 months would look like this... Does she go by the nickname Buffalo Bill, by any chance?

NSFW!

"It puts the lotion in the basket"

[Jiggy_12]

My expectation would be the full amount is returned, due to this being an issue on her end with not being able to fulfill the job that was requested.

Also, since she didn't specify she wouldn't be refunding the full amount, I would be surprised if you don't get the full amount back.

[PepsiFree]

Where in the world did you go that led to a coat taking 2 years to make?

Demand the whole deposit, that's an insane amount of time wasted.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by underGRADFlame

"It puts the lotion in the basket"

wow, did not see this joe dirt reference coming at all.

well played sire, very well played.

2 yrs for a coat to built - yikes, you could have built a new house in a shorter period of time.

[Amethyst]

The way you wrote it makes me think she is refunding the entire amount. It makes sense since the reason for it not being completed is her fault. I wouldn't say anything unless she then tried not to return it all.

If she used that money to buy materials which could be given to you and used by someone else, then maybe you want to negotiate. If it was me, I would probably just say I was going to start fresh with someone else and she could keep the materials to use as she wished in the future (and refund the entire deposit).

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

wow, did not see this joe dirt reference coming at all.

Wait.

What?

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Wait.

What?

You've never seen the classic film Joe Dirt of the Lambs?

Anthony Hopkins plays a loveable redneck who goes on a quest to finds his parents. Along the way he meets up with an FBI agent played by Jodie Foster. At first their personalities don't mix, but in the end they discover they have a lot more in common than they thought. Special guest appearance by Chris Walken as Buffalo Bill, who really steals the movie in my opinion.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

The way you wrote it makes me think she is refunding the entire amount. It makes sense since the reason for it not being completed is her fault. I wouldn't say anything unless she then tried not to return it all.

If she used that money to buy materials which could be given to you and used by someone else, then maybe you want to negotiate. If it was me, I would probably just say I was going to start fresh with someone else and she could keep the materials to use as she wished in the future (and refund the entire deposit).

I was going to say, you might have to negotiate out material costs. If she's willing to sell you any materials that she bought going against the refund. It sounds like it was a matter that for whatever reasons she can't complete the job, whether its personal or whatever. If she's completed some of the work and paid for materials out of the deposit, it might be far for her to receive her costs.

[taco.vidal]

Is this for those folks in costumes that play games in parks with swords and shields?

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

A couple years back, I decided to get a full length special style of coat made for my wife by a local seamstress. A price was decided on, and roughly 30% of the (not insignificant) cost was put down as a deposit.

Over the course of the two years (the seamstress had some personal issues that needed dealing with) there have been multiple fittings, mock-up's, material tests, etc

The seamstress today wrote my wife a facebook message (their primary method of communication) saying that she no longer feels that she is capable of continuing the project and is backing out. She noted that she would be refunding the deposit, but didn't say how much of it she'd be returning.

Should I be asking for the full deposit returned? Should I not mention an amount to be returned, and just see what she does? Does a deposit like this cover pre-construction materials and labor or is that on the seamstress?

I'm actually kinda lost on this one. I don't want to be a jerk...but I also feel we've been more than understanding (this is a project initially projected to take 3-4 months, not 2+years) so I'm not really sure where I stand on this.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Where in the world did you go that led to a coat taking 2 years to make?

Demand the whole deposit, that's an insane amount of time wasted.

You greatly under estimate the gestation period of the Dalmatian.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

I'd like to know what it is about this project that has the seamstress deciding to back out. Not because I think it's relevant to your refund discussion, but because I'd like to understand what the heck you were attempting to create that had you two undertaking a 3 to 4 month coat creation that to date has taken 2 years.

While agree with most on here you'd be entitled to a full refund under normal circumstances or a normal commerce agreement......I can't help but think this project simply can't be normal, as no normal coat takes 4 months to make, and no normal project has you willing to extend your deadlines out to 2 years. I'm guessing there is some back and forth / experimentation, unusual requests that went on here to try and complete the project where you were likely aware that the seamstress would have been putting in "best efforts" to accommodate your unusual request. In that situation she may be entitled to keep at least some of the deposit for her time spent (maybe costs incurred as well) on attempting to solve your problem or accommodate your request for a weird coat.

If this thing was straight forward I'm guessing you might have taken your business elsewhere long before now after this seamstress failed to deliver, so I'm guessing it's not as simple as they simply didn't deliver so give me my money back.

[Sliver]

Wow, good point, Cleveland. At first I thought he should be getting his full deposit back, but now I'm not so sure. Particularly because he said there have been multiple fittings. Any seamstress can knock off a dress in three fittings. White Tiger, I'd really try to step back and think about whether or not your wife is a reasonable lady, or if perhaps she can sometimes be unrealistic in her expectations. If there is any chance you have not been clear in your direction to the seamstress or if you have changed aspects of the coat through this process, then maybe this is just the seamstress's tactful way of saying pfo I can't work with these people. If that's the case, you need to compensate her for her time which may actually be beyond the deposit.

Commissioning a custom made coat is a little nuts to begin with, tbh.

[topfiverecords]

Was it one of these?

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I'd like to know what it is about this project that has the seamstress deciding to back out. Not because I think it's relevant to your refund discussion, but because I'd like to understand what the heck you were attempting to create that had you two undertaking a 3 to 4 month coat creation that to date has taken 2 years.

While agree with most on here you'd be entitled to a full refund under normal circumstances or a normal commerce agreement......I can't help but think this project simply can't be normal, as no normal coat takes 4 months to make, and no normal project has you willing to extend your deadlines out to 2 years. I'm guessing there is some back and forth / experimentation, unusual requests that went on here to try and complete the project where you were likely aware that the seamstress would have been putting in "best efforts" to accommodate your unusual request. In that situation she may be entitled to keep at least some of the deposit for her time spent (maybe costs incurred as well) on attempting to solve your problem or accommodate your request for a weird coat.

If this thing was straight forward I'm guessing you might have taken your business elsewhere long before now after this seamstress failed to deliver, so I'm guessing it's not as simple as they simply didn't deliver so give me my money back.

This is true, and something I was thinking about.

I guess I am being generous in calling the person a "seamstress". She is quite good at making clothing, but it's something she does part time in the leftover time after her full time job (and backstopping 2 kids). So it was understood by both her and my wife, just from sheer dint of work she already has on her plate to start with, that the project would take some time. The lady figured it'd take her 3-4 months.

It's a custom fitted full length jacket with floor length dagged sleeves. It's got multiple layers for cold and/or wet weather and had a removable hood. Yes, it does have a slightly medieval look to it. It was essentially supposed to be a really nice (a step up from a daily/common use) jacket that would work for all 4 seasons of Calgary's weather.

My wife found a picture of it online from a place that sells them. She was discussing it with the lady at some point (I don't know how it came up) but the lady that said that she could make it for about the same price, in about 3-4 months. Since my wife has this "local money spent locally is good!" thing and there was no rush need on the jacket (and she'd get it custom fit instead of off the internet, in her favorite color, which the internet store didn't have) she hopped on.

From there, it turned into two years of "I'm depressed and can't make it", "This material didn't do what I thought.", "My kids have been alternating sick for weeks", "I got extra hours at work for the next month", "You've lost a lot of weight, the mock up needs to be re-sized" and so on and so forth.

I haven't attended any fittings (really, I'm just a walking wallet on this project) so I don't know how interactions between the two of them have gone, but my wife is generally pretty easy going.

She showed me the FB message that she was sent with the lady backing out. It was pretty vague, just said that she didn't feel that she could finish the project up to her own standards, thanked my wife for her patience up this point, and apologized for backing out.

Another point to consider...the lady and my wife have become decent friends throughout the process, and intend to continue the friendship. So neither is apparently too upset at the either.