Stabbing in Brentwood-5 Dead, 1 Arrested

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by morgin

While not necessarily Ne7en's, there's another interpretation, which I alluded to above - we simply don't have a good enough understanding yet to make statements about whether someone is cured

I have't said he is cured, wait have I?

or not, and can only accept reports from experts who have to make informed assumptions based on behavior. In terms of studying exactly what is going on in the brain, that's just not happening yet. As a society we maybe need that certainty to give back someone's personal freedom after committing an act of violence of this magnitude. I really don't care about punishing Degrood or seeking justice or any of that and my reasons for wanting him to stay isolated from society has nothing to do with revenge - I simply think that the safety of society trumps his personal freedoms in this instance, and until we have something better than behavioral analysis based on living medicated for a lengthy period of time, that need to protect society is more important.

While you don't "care about punishing Degrood, it appears Ne7en does.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

No I asked if he would feel the same if a physical illness produced the same result.

Examples?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

Examples?

Had a stroke while operating machinery which ended in death. (car, plane, crane, etc)

[polak]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Had a stroke while operating machinery which ended in death. (car, plane, crane, etc)

This was pretty much the exact comparison that convinced me with the Li case.

I think everyone would agree that anyone who killed someone due to a physical illness would be expected to face the maximum level of regulations, tests, and reviews to make sure that they were okay before being allowed to return to work, no?

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Had a stroke while operating machinery which ended in death. (car, plane, crane, etc)

That's a medical emergency not an illness and they would never be allowed to drive again because of the risk. Even if the stroke risk could be lowered.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

That's a medical emergency not an illness and they would never be allowed to drive again.

Substitute for undiagnosed heart disease, which manifests itself in an initial heart attack.

[Ne7en]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Had a stroke while operating machinery which ended in death. (car, plane, crane, etc)

Simple..
Guy never operates machinery again. Guarantees the safety of the public.
Degrood never sees freedom again. This also is the only way to guarantee public safety.

Like someone said earlier.. public safety trumps degrood's freedom.
Also don't waste any tax dollars trying to rehabilitate someone whom has wiped away 5 lives. What money is spent on rehabilitating the victims families after this tragedy?

[northcrunk]

I don't think a physical disease would cause someone to pick up a knife and kill 5 people which is why the comparison is not great.

The only comparison I can think of which would be somewhat similar is if someone is infected with AIDS and they go around stabbing random people with needles of their blood and do not take their meds.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Substitute for undiagnosed heart disease, which manifests itself in an initial heart attack.

They would never have a license to drive ever again after the first heart attack and diagnosis. Problem solved, no more risk to the public.

[calgarywinning]

I feel very bad for the victims and the parents, siblings and friends who have to live with the tragedy on a daily basis. All the victims who won't have lives, further experiences, etc. The parents statement is very important as the polarizing opinion and debate takes away from the victims and their plight.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

They would never have a license to drive ever again after the first heart attack and diagnosis. Problem solved, no more risk to the public.

They could still get behind the wheel. Why not remove any possibility of that, and lock them away forever?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

Simple..
Guy never operates machinery again. Guarantees the safety of the public.
Degrood never sees freedom again. This also is the only way to guarantee public safety.

Like someone said earlier.. public safety trumps degrood's freedom.
Also don't waste any tax dollars trying to rehabilitate someone whom has wiped away 5 lives. What money is spent on rehabilitating the victims families after this tragedy?

The only way to guarantee public safety from anyone is to incarcerate all people. Every time you step onto the street you have a higher chance of dying from some random event than you do of Matthew De Groode coming to kill you.

IMO, public safety concerns do NOT trump de Groodes freedom if he has shown to have no relapses with medication and Psychiatric experts deem him fit to at least re-enter society under supervision.

Also, I'm open to be corrected, but IIRC, the cost of rehabilitation is minimal compared to lifetime incarceration or even a death sentence.

Originally Posted by northcrunk

I don't think a physical disease would cause someone to pick up a knife and kill 5 people which is why the comparison is not great.

The only comparison I can think of which would be somewhat similar is if someone is infected with AIDS and they go around stabbing random people with needles of their blood and do not take their meds.

This implies the person with the needle knows what they are doing. That they are infected with AIDS and purposefully infecting people without their knowledge (i'm fairly certain there is precedence for that being considered murder). It's not comparable, because the assumption under NCR is that they had no idea what they were doing.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

I don't think a physical disease would cause someone to pick up a knife and kill 5 people which is why the comparison is not great.

While I'm no doctor, I'm pretty sure there are a multitude of illnesses and parasites which can affect the brain and cause erratic behavior. Syphilis being an obvious one.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Wormius

They could still get behind the wheel. Why not remove any possibility of that, and lock them away forever?

Exactly. Taking away their license is the equivalent to putting Degrood on meds. It should stop it, but you never know if they'll ever say screw it and drive/stop taking their meds.

The only way to stop someone from driving in this hypothetical is locking them away forever like some of you want to do to Degrood. Is that fair?

[heep223]

Originally Posted by polak

Exactly. Taking away their license is the equivalent to putting Degrood on meds. It should stop it, but you never know if they'll ever say screw it and drive/stop taking their meds.

The only way to stop someone from driving in this hypothetical is locking them away forever like some of you want to do to Degrood. Is that fair?

They can place him on forced injections. So he doesn't have the choice to stop taking them.

[Dan02]

I think what Northcrunk and Ne7en don't realize is that these things can happen to anyone, yes that includes them. Shall we just lock everyone up in solitary so no one can be murdered?

[DiracSpike]

I don't think the heart attack while driving scenario is a good one. That's a very specific instance where someone is possibly dangerous, whereas DeGrood can be dangerous in any and all possible everyday life scenarios. I appreciate the example is to show that DeGrood isn't at moralistic fault but he's clearly much more dangerous to society than a fat guy with a heart condition.

[polak]

Originally Posted by heep223

They can place him on forced injections. So he doesn't have the choice to stop taking them.

I'm assuming only if he's deemed "high risk" though, right?

[heep223]

Originally Posted by polak

I'm assuming only if he's deemed "high risk" though, right?

I haven't been following the dialogue in this thread about the high risk label. But I can tell you that I know people who are on forced injections of anti-psychotic medication, who have not harmed other people in any way.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

Simple..
Guy never operates machinery again. Guarantees the safety of the public.
Degrood never sees freedom again. This also is the only way to guarantee public safety.

Like someone said earlier.. public safety trumps degrood's freedom.
Also don't waste any tax dollars trying to rehabilitate someone whom has wiped away 5 lives. What money is spent on rehabilitating the victims families after this tragedy?

You understand rehabilitating him actually saves money compared to keeping him imprisoned right. Not that the cost should be a consideration.

We also shouldn't waste money treating the guy who had a stroke an killed people in a car accident.