Stabbing in Brentwood-5 Dead, 1 Arrested

[EldrickOnIce]

The victim’s families released a joint statement, small excerpt below
“We ask that everyone remember the names: Zackariah Rathwell, Jordan Segura, Kaiti Perras, Lawrence Hong and Josh Hunter.
We can all cherish their legacy by reminiscing moments together, living out their values and supporting others through the scholarships and foundations created in their memory. Those are the individuals who should be remembered. Those are the lives that were lost, and no matter what: Kaiti, Jordan, Josh, Zack and Lawrence are still gone and our families will never be whole again.”
http://www.news1130.com/2016/05/25/c...-respsonsible/

[polak]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

The Crown does a decent job of explaining it inna few of the news articles. Basically a high risk designation pushes reviews back to three year intervals instead of one year and puts a conditional or absolute discharge into the community in front of an additional judge.

As a society we've decided that taking someone's freedom has to be regulated and thus the need to apply for and prove the requirement for additional restrictions. How many people who are demanding more stringent restricts be automatic in this case were complaining about mandatory minimums a year or two ago?

Wow I don't even where to begin?

So is there any situation where you think those restrictions are "unfair" or "too harsh" for someone who killed somebody in a psychotic episode?

Are you really going to compare people complaining about mandatory minimums for petty crimes like Possession to people demanding strict regulations on the reintegration and assessment of someone who ####ing killed an innocent person?!

Also, MMF, my "hysteria" about this person not being treated with the highest potential for risk has nothing to do with my level empathy for people with mental illness. As I said, I understand that he's not being held criminally responsible for his actions and that he's got a horrible, unfair and devastating disease and that if he can be cured he could be a productive member of society. None of that makes me feel any differently about anyone who has taken an innocent life automatically being labelled with the maximum level of risk and the rules and restrictions placed on that persons eventual reintegration into society.

[jayswin]

Wow, this thread took a crazy turn. What happened since yesterday to bring out the passionate "lock him up for forever, I don't care about the mental illness aspect!!!"?

I'm not even saying you don't have a right to opinion, im Just surprised at it all coming out like crazy today, including a poster going on a maniacle rant filled explicitives. Was it the thing becoming official that set you guys off.

We made such good headway in discussion yesterday, Imo. Now it's back to 2005 style posts.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

5 people are dead. I'm shocked by your lack of empathy.

That's pretty funny/stupid, mostly stupid. Two years ago when all this was going down I was accused of being too emotional about the whole ordeal, think I mentioned how sad I got driving by the billboard the UofC put up on crowchild. Feel bad for the five victims and the guy who had a mental breakdown/episode/whatever and did this.

Now that's not to say I think he should be let out, I'm legitimately torn about that but I have empathy for him as well, I'm allowed to do that. In your face, sucka.

[Deviaant]

So now that we know the NCR verdict, what happens to Degrood now?

[morgin]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Totally agree. That's how I feel and I don't and won't apologize for it. Freedom can mean many things but he needs to spend a significant amount of time in hospital.

One thing I've tried to do is put myself in the shoes of someone who seems like he had a decent life and was reasonably smart and then suffered a major psychotic episode that resulted in killing 5 people, and trying and rationalize what I would do if that were me and I was medicated to the point I understood what I did.

I wouldn't want out. I probably wouldn't even want to be alive. Just from a purely selfish perspective, there's too many people I care about in my life that would be at risk from me in the future if I were ever to somehow become un-medicated to ever think of putting them in harms way in the future, not to mention the public at large.

Given I hope that would be most people's reaction as well, I have no problem with what you said above. I sincerely hope he is able to be given treatment and can find a way to live with what happened to him, but I wouldn't want to be released in that scenario, and I wouldn't want anyone else to be released. Maybe down the line there will be advances in our understanding of neurology that some medical expert could say with 100% certainty that whatever is wrong in his brain has been fixed and there is a 0% risk of this ever happening again, but until then...

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Wait, do you think he's a werefolf and shouldn't face punishment?

I never said that.

This is a result of a mental illness.

If it was the result of a physical illness would you feel the same?

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Wow, this thread took a crazy turn. What happened since yesterday to bring out the passionate "lock him up for forever, I don't care about the mental illness aspect!!!"?

I'm not even saying you don't have a right to opinion, im Just surprised at it all coming out like crazy today, including a poster going on a maniacle rant filled explicitives. Was it the thing becoming official that set you guys off.

We made such good headway in discussion yesterday, Imo. Now it's back to 2005 style posts.

I don't want him to be released. I think it's too risky and there should be punishment for what he did, sick or not. I thought and do think the same thing about Li.

Like many things, I can have personal feelings about how something should be but understand that society needs to be better than that.

[polak]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Wow, this thread took a crazy turn. What happened since yesterday to bring out the passionate "lock him up for forever, I don't care about the mental illness aspect!!!"?

I'm not even saying you don't have a right to opinion, I'm Just surprised at it all coming out like crazy today, inkcifojng a poster going on a maniacle rant filled explicitives. Was it the thing becoming official that set you guys off.

We made such good headway in discussion yesterday, Imo. Now it's back to 2005 style posts.

Seriously? My expletive filled rant has nothing to do with his illness. It's squarely directed at the legal systems requirements for "High Risk" labels.

I'm going to make a CP knock off that will take every thread posted on here and instead of letting you read what other posters actually say, I'll just have it post the most PC response possible. That should keep you happy and placated .

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I never said that.

This is a result of a mental illness.

If it was the result of a physical illness would you feel the same?

That's the point of my post...you quoted two posts and totally misinterpreted them.

And I didn't say I felt anything so don't know what you're referring to just pointing out you are continually misinterpreting posts and trying to argue points which nobody made.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

Criminally responsible or not, Degrood should never be granted freedom.

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

That's the point of my post...you quoted two posts and totally misinterpreted them.

And I didn't say I felt anything so don't know what you're referring to just pointing out you are continually misinterpreting posts and trying to argue points which nobody made.

"Never" as in ever, 20+ years of taking his medications with no relapses and that still woulnd't be good enough for him.

It is clear that Ne7en believes that the key should be thrown away.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

"Never" as in ever, 20+ years of taking his medications with no relapses and that still woulnd't be good enough for him.

It is clear that Ne7en believes that the key should be thrown away.

Can't speak for Ne7en but to be honest, I think even after 20+ years of his taking his medications with no relapses he should still have to undergo continuous psychiatric evaluations. Maybe he lives at home, has a job etc.. but he still gets assessed and "randomly" checked on for his meds. Being required to do that is taking away part of his freedom, and I would totally be fine with that.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Wow, this thread took a crazy turn. What happened since yesterday to bring out the passionate "lock him up for forever, I don't care about the mental illness aspect!!!"?

I'm not even saying you don't have a right to opinion, im Just surprised at it all coming out like crazy today, including a poster going on a maniacle rant filled explicitives. Was it the thing becoming official that set you guys off.

We made such good headway in discussion yesterday, Imo. Now it's back to 2005 style posts.

For me, it was waiting until we had all the information before saying anything.

I don't know why you think it's crazy for people to empathize with the victims and the victim's families more than the mentally ill individual. To me it seems perfectly rational. Maybe I'm a bit crazy in the head too.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

"Never" as in ever, 20+ years of taking his medications with no relapses and that still woulnd't be good enough for him.

It is clear that Ne7en believes that the key should be thrown away.

Now that's an argument, but you said he didn't believe DeGrood had a mental illness which he never said.

You can believe he had a mental illness and still want him locked up forever. You suggested that position meant someone didn't believe in mental illnesses and then went even further and suggested I thought he'd be out the same day.

[morgin]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

"Never" as in ever, 20+ years of taking his medications with no relapses and that still woulnd't be good enough for him.

It is clear that Ne7en believes that the key should be thrown away.

While not necessarily Ne7en's, there's another interpretation, which I alluded to above - we simply don't have a good enough understanding yet to make statements about whether someone is cured or not, and can only accept reports from experts who have to make informed assumptions based on behavior. In terms of studying exactly what is going on in the brain, that's just not happening yet. As a society we maybe need that certainty to give back someone's personal freedom after committing an act of violence of this magnitude. I really don't care about punishing Degrood or seeking justice or any of that and my reasons for wanting him to stay isolated from society has nothing to do with revenge - I simply think that the safety of society trumps his personal freedoms in this instance, and until we have something better than behavioral analysis based on living medicated for a lengthy period of time, that need to protect society is more important.

[Ne7en]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

"Never" as in ever, 20+ years of taking his medications with no relapses and that still woulnd't be good enough for him.

It is clear that Ne7en believes that the key should be thrown away.

I'm good with him getting another shot at life as soon as those 5 kids do.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Now that's an argument, but you said he didn't believe DeGrood had a mental illness which he never said.

You can believe he had a mental illness and still want him locked up forever. You suggested that position meant someone didn't believe in mental illnesses and then went even further and suggested I thought he'd be out the same day.

No I asked if he would feel the same if a physical illness produced the same result.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

No I asked if he would feel the same if a physical illness produced the same result.

No this is exactly what you said.

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

So mental illness isn't an illness in your eyes?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I never said that.

This is a result of a mental illness.

If it was the result of a physical illness would you feel the same?

I also asked this ^^^^

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

No this is exactly what you said.

So if the same result comes from a physical illness is your his response the same..

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by polak

Seriously? My expletive filled rant has nothing to do with his illness. It's squarely directed at the legal systems requirements for "High Risk" labels.



I'm going to make a CP knock off that will take every thread posted on here and instead of letting you read what other posters actually say, I'll just have it post the most PC response possible. That should keep you happy and placated .

You seem to have taken a very histrionic and pedantic position on this "High Risk" designation.