David Berkowitz said his neighbour's dog made him do it. If we follow your logic, we should blame the dog. Without the dog's influence, he wouldn't have killed all those people.
Was he dyslexic maybe?
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David Berkowitz said his neighbour's dog made him do it. If we follow your logic, we should blame the dog. Without the dog's influence, he wouldn't have killed all those people.
Actually David Berkowitz said the dog was the devil that manifested to the neighbor's dog
There are plenty of psychotic serial killers that blamed god or the devil for their actions, how many are treated and let out after a few years because they are better?
I really don't care if de Grood blames god, the easter bunny or a unicorn for his murders, If he is found to suffer from schizophrenia fine, treat him and then send him to jail but he should never taste freedom again as it's a slap in the face to the victims and their family's.
There are plenty of psychotic serial killers that blamed god or the devil for their actions, how many are treated and let out after a few years because they are better?
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Originally Posted by T@T
If he is found to suffer from schizophrenia fine, treat him and then send him to jail but he should never taste freedom again as it's a slap in the face to the victims and their family's.
Fear and ignorance is the reason why some want Degroot locked away forever. They don't care or want to understand that a properly medicated person is no longer a threat to society. The goal of society is to rehabilitate where and if possible.
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Originally Posted by jayswin
Tranny, I'm not sure I understand your motive here, or maybe you missed some posts? First you stated that until we find a way to allow mentally ill, potentially violent patients then they shouldn't be allowed to interact in society.
So I posted about one of Canada's most infamous criminal cases ever, and how it was an exact case of a patient being rehabilitated and monitored for drug treatment for life. Then another poster posted an article on it which describes exactly how he's monitored and takes the drugs necessary to keep him normal.
Then you ignore all that and respond to another poster who mentioned the daily monitoring, which again we have an exact example of this happening with Vincent Lee, and you respond with
Like I honestly don't understand what you're going for here.
I had no idea that there was such a program that made sure patients were medicated on a regular basis without being institutionalized. Honestly had no idea and am both surprised and pleased there is. I didnt think there was the manpower/resources to ensure such.
I will ask this though, what happens if said individual disappears? is there such a thing as the ankle bracelet to monitor their whereabouts?
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Originally Posted by afc wimbledon
My girlfriends job is to drive around Vancouver twice a day carrying large quantities of anti psychotic medication for thirty or so patients, she delivers and monitors their med' compliance as part of a community monitoring program, it's cheaper than keeping the patients in hospital. They don't take the med's they get pulled back into hospital that day generally
Thanks for this...i had no idea there was such a program available.
Does t@t understand that paranoid schizophrenic thoughts are just tapping into things the person is aware of? Like he doesn't actually think a paranoid schizophrenic wouldn't have a violent episode if they didn't believe in religion does he?
Fear and ignorance is the reason why some want Degroot locked away forever. They don't care or want to understand that a properly medicated person is no longer a threat to society. The goal of society is to rehabilitate where and if possible.
Ever heard of justice? it's that thing that society built in hopes to curb crime. I don't care if he's a threat or not, he murdered 5 people and ruined the lives of countless more. He should never be allowed freedom.
Ever heard of justice? it's that thing that society built in hopes to curb crime. I don't care if he's a threat or not, he murdered 5 people and ruined the lives of countless more. He should never be allowed freedom.
That's an interesting point. Let's look at what is justice.
Retribution vs Rehabilitiation vs prevention
Punishment for crime has not been found to meaningfully affect the occurance of crime (murder and violent crime not sure about petty crime). Enforcement does seem to work. So the statement that punishment is designed to curb crime is false.
Keeping people imprisioned is designed to keep them from committing crimes but in cases with mental health issues omprisonment isn't the only effective prevention method
Rehabilitation is one of the most important components of Justice. Fix the people who commit crimes so they don't commit more. Demographic analysis of criminals really point to societal factors being the cause of a lot of our crime so in some ways this is the opportunity to fix people where society as failed. So if a person can be fixed they should.
Finally you get retribution. And here is where it seems you suffer from any people. And that an okay position to take provided you are aware you are taking it. Your position right now is that a person unaware or in control of their actions should be punished for them. To me if a person is not in control of what they are doing then they shouldn't be criminally responsible.
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Ever heard of justice? it's that thing that society built in hopes to curb crime. I don't care if he's a threat or not, he murdered 5 people and ruined the lives of countless more. He should never be allowed freedom.
So if he isn't a threat, what is the harm in putting him in a treatment facility?
It isn't as though locking him up in prison is going to prevent other people from getting schizophrenia in the future
Why am I the ignorant one?, de Grood is the one blaming religion on his actions when he claimed Jesus made him do it!
It is the disease process and has nothing to do with religion, on talking to people with schizophrenia before it just serves as a conduit for unexplainable situations. There is a voice inside your head, that only you can hear that taunts you, gives you instructions, and is there 24/7. That isn't there because of religion, it is there because of the disease process of schizophrenia. I can't even imagine how horrific this must be to the person, I have listened to audio simulations of schizophrenia while attempting to complete a task and I couldn't do it. It left me with a new appreciation for the challenges they go through on a daily basis.
In general, there are many things that are bad about religion, but to say that schizophrenia is one of them is downright ignorant of religion and the disease. So in general you are at best ignorant at worst you are incompetent as well as ignorant.
Last edited by Mean Mr. Mustard; 05-23-2016 at 08:18 PM.
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Ever heard of justice? it's that thing that society built in hopes to curb crime. I don't care if he's a threat or not, he murdered 5 people and ruined the lives of countless more. He should never be allowed freedom.
You have a narrow conception of justice. Back in the 1800s, British legal thinkers were already talking of the bad, the mad, and the sad. That is, they distinguished between people who were deliberately predatory, people who were insane, and people who were what we would now call depressed. Justice was served by recognizing those distinctions, not by ignoring them in favour of old testament eye-for-an-eye revenge. Justice that takes no account of intent and state of mind is not justice at all.
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The amount of horrible, disgusting, violent, and damaging things done in the name of "justice" by legal means throughout history that all ridiculously trump what DeGroot did makes me think that if you trot out "ever heard of justice" you fit the exact description that most people seem to have of you here.
That, or T@T gets off on getting reactions. Which seems more likely.
