2015-16 Raptors and General NBA Thread

[Imported_Aussie]

The Raptors, if they want to become a contender, need to move on from DeRozan and get a true star player. Definitely easier said than done, but that should be their goal - a strong scoring forward or a prolific shooting guard.
Lowry is a great PG and Valanciunas is a good young C - those should be the two main pieces to build around. But IMO they are a #2 and #3 - they need a guy who can take a game over.
They won't get it in the draft - though in the range of their pick they have a chance to add a good young PF or SG to develop, but they aren't getting a starter.

Real challenge is selling Toronto as a destination to american players, but in an ideal world they would be making a run at Durant and playing him with either Carroll (defence, small ball) or a PF who is hopefully an upgrade on Patterson.

A more realistic option in free agency may be going for a guy who, though not a true #1, is a better skillset fit for what the team needs, like Chandler Parsons (who should opt out), Harrison Barnes (RFA) or maybe Nic Batum (UFA). All 3 guys can shoot the 3, play a 2 way game, and play at both forward positions, giving the Raptors some versatility in fielding different playing units.

[killer_carlson]

JV makes the games closer, but with DD and KL deciding to take every shot they can it wouldn't matter in the end. The Raptors are getting worked with this backcourt and coach.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Derozan is absolutely a "star player". 8th in the league in scoring is no joke. He may not be the most complete player, but he's going to be a big piece for whoever acquires him.

[Senator Clay Davis]

DeRozan is a guy you need on a championship team, it's just not a good omen if he's your #1 guy. I think he's perfectly suited to being a #2/3 guy instead. It's funny that realistically that's exactly what Harden is and where he was at his most effective, but as the #1 guy as we've seen he doesn't really make the Rockets much of a threat for anything. Being the worst defender in the league might have something to do with it I imagine.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by Imported_Aussie

The Raptors, if they want to become a contender, need to move on from DeRozan and get a true star player. Definitely easier said than done, but that should be their goal - a strong scoring forward or a prolific shooting guard.
Lowry is a great PG and Valanciunas is a good young C - those should be the two main pieces to build around. But IMO they are a #2 and #3 - they need a guy who can take a game over.
They won't get it in the draft - though in the range of their pick they have a chance to add a good young PF or SG to develop, but they aren't getting a starter.

Real challenge is selling Toronto as a destination to american players, but in an ideal world they would be making a run at Durant and playing him with either Carroll (defence, small ball) or a PF who is hopefully an upgrade on Patterson.

A more realistic option in free agency may be going for a guy who, though not a true #1, is a better skillset fit for what the team needs, like Chandler Parsons (who should opt out), Harrison Barnes (RFA) or maybe Nic Batum (UFA). All 3 guys can shoot the 3, play a 2 way game, and play at both forward positions, giving the Raptors some versatility in fielding different playing units.

If they ever had a shot at a superstar, I think Durant would be it. He grew up cheering for the Raptors and I believe he's friends with Drake. Super long shot but that would be the type of move that could get this team on the map finally.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Derozan is absolutely a "star player". 8th in the league in scoring is no joke. He may not be the most complete player, but he's going to be a big piece for whoever acquires him.

He's a star on the Raptors. As others have said, he's a good #2/#3 option. No team will challenge for the NBA championship with him as the #1 option.

Could you please check and let us know where he sits in terms of playoff scoring this year?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

If they ever had a shot at a superstar, I think Durant would be it. He grew up cheering for the Raptors and I believe he's friends with Drake. Super long shot but that would be the type of move that could get this team on the map finally.

My dream scenario for the conference finals was the Raps pulling the stunner and winning against the Cavs, and the Dubs destroying the Thunder in 4 straight. Maybe KD thinks "Hmmm, East is really easy Raps got through it without me. Now add me and...."

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

He's a star on the Raptors. As others have said, he's a good #2/#3 option. No team will challenge for the NBA championship with him as the #1 option.

Could you please check and let us know where he sits in terms of playoff scoring this year?

Isn't that what he is though? #2 behind Lowry?

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Isn't that what he is though? #2 behind Lowry?

No, Lowry is the distributor. derozen jacks up the shots, lowry plays as the #2 option. Either way, the team missing a true #1 option.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

No, Lowry is the distributor. derozen jacks up the shots, lowry plays as the #2 option. Either way, the team missing a true #1 option.

Fair enough. But these are still all star players we're talking about.

[killer_carlson]

If the Raptors re-up DD I think it will quickly become the next version of the Blue Jays Vernon Wells contract.

[Language]

Fact of the matter, it's hard to win a championship in the NBA without a true superstar. In the last 26 years, only 9 teams have won a championship.

Of those 9 teams:

- Bulls (dynasty team, no explanation needed)
- Lakers (dynasty team with Kobe/Shaq, or just Kobe...both HOF)
- Spurs (model of consistency, HOF in Duncan and stars in Parker/Ginobili)
- Heat (Wade, Bosh, Lebron)
- Mavericks (Nowitzki)
- Warriors (Splash brothers etc, greatest regular season team ever this year)
- Celtics (Garnett, Pierce, Allen)

You could say the Pistons were arguably the only team without a true superstar when they won in 2004.

There really is no way you're winning in the NBA without a HOF level superstar in your lineup. And I'm not just talking All Stars (of which the Raptors have two). It's great the Raps made the final 4 (they may even make the final one of these years as they do have a great team), but I just don't see them ever winning. And it's not a knock on them.

Especially in the last 5-6 years the way Lebron has essentially been able to assemble "dream teams" in Miami and Cleveland. The last time I remember that happening in the NHL is when Parise/Suter chose the Wild, and Kariya/Selanne went to the Avalanche. Neither of those teams have assembled great post season success. It's just the way the NBA works, compared to the NFL/NHL. It must be hard being a true fan in the NBA knowing your team barely has a chance against the juggernauts.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I know it's easy to hate on DeRozan, but he's gotten better every year he's been in the league. Yes he's not LeBron or Durant, but he's still a very good player who, like most players, is flawed. But giving him the max won't be an albatross of a contract like the Vernon Wells deal, and especially not in an NBA where Biyombo could be making $15 million per year.

[DiNaMo]

Purely hypothetical but say you kept DeRozan and added Durant to the current Raptors core roster bringing their team salary to the Cav's spectrum would they be league favorites, right behind Golden State, other?

Lowry - DeRozan - Durant - Valanciunas (healthy)

[Da_Chief]

^Will not work due to salary cap.

But playing along, Durant has a better support cast right now if you compare (Westbrook vs Lowry), (Jonas vs Adams), (DeRozen vs Robertson). Jonas and Adams are not that far off. Westbrook vs Lowry is a huge advantage Thunder. DeRozen is better then Robertson by a fair margin. So, lets see if they can beat the Warriors with his current group.

It would put them on the NBA map for sure. Even if they let go DeRozen.

Lowry-Powell-Carroll-Durant-Jonas can challenge the Cavs in the East imo.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Derozan is absolutely a "star player". 8th in the league in scoring is no joke. He may not be the most complete player, but he's going to be a big piece for whoever acquires him.

I'm honestly not sure that means a whole lot. Guys like Rudy Gay and Monta Ellis have finished top 10 in scoring before.

He's much better than those names but still isn't a guy that you think of as a true championship winning superstar in the NBA.

Plus his poor playoff performances don't help build his case. A lot of that is due to defense being tighter, fewer fouls awarded, and his long-range shooting just isn't good enough.

[Senator Clay Davis]

But who do we consider a "true championship winning superstar"? I don't think there's that many of those guys out there and defining them is difficult. For instance take DeMarcus Cousins. A truly dominant big man, I think if you put him on any of the Eastern Playoff teams not named Cleveland, that team instantly becomes the #2 team out East, and frankly I don't see how Cleveland beats that team because they have no one to stop Cousins from having a 35-15 series average at a minimum. But he plays for the Kings where almost no one notices him. So he's never considered a "championship winning superstar", even as he'd clearly be one of the top 10 players taken in a "Start a franchise" draft. So it's always kinda tough to say who is a "championship winning superstar"....though I don't think we'd see any of the current Raptors be selected in the first 20 or so picks, which is probably a good sign they lack that kind of superstar.

And yeah, I am kinda subtly suggesting they take a run at Cousins, I'd be willing to sacrifice JV for him.

[Da_Chief]

Cousins is one of the most selfish players in the NBA. The guy is a loose cannon, doesn't respect his coaches. He is talented but his attitude will hold him back. Kings aren't even a playoff team with him due to him undermining his coaches.

You're right there's only a few "true championship winning superstars." As Language pointed out theres only a few of them that have won an NBA championship in the last 26 years.

Now if you get Cousins on a team like the Wolves, you have a chance of turning Wiggins/Towns/Cousins into one of those teams.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Cousins is one of the most selfish players in the NBA. The guy is a loose cannon, doesn't respect his coaches. He is talented but his attitude will hold him back. Kings aren't even a playoff team with him due to him undermining his coaches.

You're right there's only a few "true championship winning superstars." As Language pointed out theres only a few of them that have won an NBA championship in the last 26 years.

Now if you get Cousins on a team like the Wolves, you have a chance of turning Wiggins/Towns/Cousins into one of those teams.

It's funny but if you take out the "loose cannon" from that description, you have almost every NBA superstar: Selfish, doesn't respect coaches. The Curry's and Kawhi's of the world are rare, most superstars are more like Kobe and MJ, selfish and not big on coaches...unless its someone with a bunch of rings.

The Wolves might be sad for Raps fans to watch the next few years, to a degree. Had they gone full tank for Wiggins, they might have Wiggins and Towns right now instead. And as I've made clear I think Towns is the guy, the brightest young talent the league has had since LeBron. His full potential is monsterous, like Hakeem but with 26 feet of range and more athleticism.

[SuperMatt18]

Tim and Sid just showed some stats on their show that show that the Raptors are a better team with Derozan on the bench.

For both the tegular season and playoffs they have a better point differential with Derozan on the bench (not even close for the playoffs).

Also have better efficiency rankings with him off the court.