(Potentially) Available Goalies: Let's rank 'em

[bax]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Thank you for the link. I have seen the video (but will watch it again), but until we see actual pads or at least prototypes I'm not sure there is a cause for concern quite yet. The last time this debate hit a fever pitch and changes were made they were marginal at most. That being said, I personally can't see pads going back to a size/style from the 80s/90s.

Yeah that's exactly it. The video demonstrates an extreme of what shrinking the goalie equipment might do. I really doubt it will be as drastic as that

[OBCT]

My Top 5:

Mrazek
Elliott
Bishop
Andersen
Reimer
(+Korpisalo)

[Trailer Fire]

The fact that you have Mrazek, who is basically a pipe dream, and you don't have Murray who is equally as pipe dream-y and equally as good, and younger, is confusing.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Trailer Fire

The fact that you have Mrazek, who is basically a pipe dream, and you don't have Murray who is equally as pipe dream-y and equally as good, and younger, is confusing.

I think Mrazek is far more likely than Murray. Neither will happen but based off the contract situation for Mrazek and Detroit having Datsyuk against the cap next year, I can at least see a possibility there with a offer sheet, or a threat of one.

Murray though? Not a chance in hell. There is no rational reason for Pittsburgh to do it when it looks like Fleury only has a partial NMC. The kid is a stud, they would be stupid to trade him barring a ridiculous overpayment.

[Trailer Fire]

Fleury has a partial NTC and a NMC. I don't think NMC's come in partial. Either you have one or you don't.

/spitting hairs

I really don't think either will be available at the end of the day. If push comes to shove both teams will buy out their big guy to make room for the young guy. IMO.

[Vulcan]

Of the goalies available and with my limited knowledge of goalies, I'd prefer MAF or Reimer but we'll probably end up with Ward.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Of the goalies available and with my limited knowledge of goalies, I'd prefer MAF or Reimer but we'll probably end up with Ward.

Ward is the guy I would sign as a stop gap.

Over the last two years:
Ward 2.40GAA and 0.910SV%
Fleury 2.35GAA and 0.917SV%
Reimer 2.80GAA and 0.913SV%

And consider the teams those three play for. Ward looks just fine to me, and wont cost any assets to acquire.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Trailer Fire

The fact that you have Mrazek, who is basically a pipe dream, and you don't have Murray who is equally as pipe dream-y and equally as good, and younger, is confusing.

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Didn't realize it posted the post before I finished creating the poll...

Reason for including:
Bishop, Ben (UFA next year, TBL has a younger G they'd want to keep)
Condon, Mike (UFA next year, Carey Price)
Elliott, Brian (UFA next year, Jake Allen)
Fleury, Marc-Andre (Might want to trade vs losing him in expansion draft)
Hutchinson, Michael (RFA this year, Pavalec UFA next year, Hellebucyk RFA next year)
Mrazek, Petr (RFA this year, will want to be starter but Howard locked up until 2019)
Ortio, Joni (was pretty good down the stretch for us)
Ramo, Karri (was pretty good after Christmas before injury)
Reimer, James (UFA this year, young, (I think) very good)

Reason for not including:
Murray, Matt (possible before playoffs but pipe dream now)

Let me know if I've missed anyone, and I'll add them!

Edit: I almost left Mrazek off, because technically Detroit's in the same position with Howard/Mrazek as Pittsburgh is with Fleury/Murray. Unlike Fleury, though, I can't see anyone wanting to take Howard even in an expansion draft, so Mrazek may force a trade in order to start somewhere.

Refer to the bolded parts in my quoted post above, which is from the first page of this thread. I mean, it's ok if you disagree with my reasons, but at least now you know them.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

I know some people are worried about gio's contract. I cant say I am. What makes me nervous is the goalie situation. We obviously need a proven starter. I just hope whoever we get doesnt end up being a sucky 5m+/year 30 something year old on longish term contract who ends up being our backup. That would really mess up the cap situation.

Considering cost i would take reimer/ward. I dont want us to trade for a goalie. Whoever it is I hope the term isnt too long. If we can sign a goalie to a 2 year contract and assess him further after that - awesome. I'm just worried we will sign someone who wants a lot of money and something like 4 years and they will crap the bed making things tough for this team cap-wise going forward.

[Trailer Fire]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Refer to the bolded parts in my quoted post above, which is from the first page of this thread. I mean, it's ok if you disagree with my reasons, but at least now you know them.

I was referring to OBCT. The post which is just above my response.

[Teroy]

Not sure who we end up with but I still think that Ortio could do a good job for us.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

Ward is the guy I would sign as a stop gap.

Over the last two years:
Ward 2.40GAA and 0.910SV%
Fleury 2.35GAA and 0.917SV%
Reimer 2.80GAA and 0.913SV%

And consider the teams those three play for. Ward looks just fine to me, and wont cost any assets to acquire.

It's a good thing you are not the GM. So here's a quick 101 on how shots against will effect GAA. Even with a subpar sv% if your team allows few shots against you will have a decent GAA. Please don't look at Wards 2.40 GAA and think that this stat is due to his exceptional play. Believe it or not but Carolina was actually a really good possession team.

All I get out of this is Fleury is a really good goalie, Reimer was a decent goalie that played on a bad team and Ward was a subpar goalie that played on a decent team.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

Ward is the guy I would sign as a stop gap.

Over the last two years:
Ward 2.40GAA and 0.910SV%
Fleury 2.35GAA and 0.917SV%
Reimer 2.80GAA and 0.913SV%

And consider the teams those three play for. Ward looks just fine to me, and wont cost any assets to acquire.

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

It's a good thing you are not the GM. So here's a quick 101 on how shots against will effect GAA. Even with a subpar sv% if your team allows few shots against you will have a decent GAA. Please don't look at Wards 2.40 GAA and think that this stat is due to his exceptional play. Believe it or not but Carolina was actually a really good possession team.

All I get out of this is Fleury is a really good goalie, Reimer was a decent goalie that played on a bad team and Ward was a subpar goalie that played on a decent team.

Yeah, I've always gone by the theory that if you can keep the SA close to 25, most goalies will be effective with a good save percentage. There are the odd goalie (Luongo?) who thrives on lots of shots over a time but screw up if inactive and even these reach a point where they lose it.

Looking at those stats it says to me that Reimer faced lots of shots while managing a good Save %. My thinking is that with fewer shots his GAA would go down and his Save% would go up.

Fleury has a great Save% but this was aided by having fewer shots per game.

Ward has a reasonable SV% but he also faced fewer shots against. He's passable but I don't think he has room for improvement. He's also a better alternative to Howard as he won't cost anything but a contract. I'd rather stick with Ramo over these two ,who showed more at 2.63 GAA and with a .909 SV%.

[activeStick]

I keep going back and forth between wanting the Flames to add someone that won't cost them any assets and trading assets for a guy that's signed.

On one hand it just costs money but likely means commitment for 3 years at least. What if a better option shows up either in the market or through the system? You're then stuck with a guy eating up cap space or even worse, the prospect moving up doesn't actually get a fair shot to even step up.

Conversely, do you really want to move picks out for a goalie when the team is rebuilding and every prospect is a bullet? Maybe it's worth it so you can get a guy who's only committed for another year or two, allowing the team to re-evaluate earlier?

Tough call.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I keep going back and forth between wanting the Flames to add someone that won't cost them any assets and trading assets for a guy that's signed.

On one hand it just costs money but likely means commitment for 3 years at least. What if a better option shows up either in the market or through the system? You're then stuck with a guy eating up cap space or even worse, the prospect moving up doesn't actually get a fair shot to even step up.

Conversely, do you really want to move picks out for a goalie when the team is rebuilding and every prospect is a bullet? Maybe it's worth it so you can get a guy who's only committed for another year or two, allowing the team to re-evaluate earlier?

Tough call.

The perfect stop gap term is 3 years. If the Flames Brass is 100% confident in Reimer and he will sign for 3 years then sure go for it. Otherwise. You go after someone with at close to that term left or go after a long term solution and not just a stop gap.

I would classify them like this.

1. Stop Gap guys that make sense (way to go if you think Gillies is the real deal. 2-3 year term): Reimer (if he's willing to sign for that), Fleury,

The stop gap guy that doesn't really fit the bill is Elliot because of 1 year remaining and then UFA. If STL could sign him to a 2-3 year extension before the trade then it makes more sense.

Stop gap guys that don't make sense: Ward, Howard, anyone from Dallas.

2. Long term solutions (guys that would cost a lot and/or would require term and money to hold on to): Andersen, Gibson, Bishop, Vasilevsky, Mrazek,

3. The tweeners (guys that are more of a gamble but have potential). Hutchison, Korpisalo, Pickard, possibly Subban?

4. Wildcards (could also work as stop gap): Bobrovsky, Varlomov


I'm sure I missed some guys but you get the point.

[zyzz]

I want Bernier.

[thefoss1957]

Originally Posted by Toonage

You guys are making it sound like the pads will be razor thin and form fitted / shrink wrapped to the goaltender.

I think that for SOME goalies, ANY reduction in pad coverage will be significant.

Take Bishop, for instance, who has been mentioned often in this thread. I noticed, during last year's SC finals, that he was rather passive, and often just let the puck hit him, THEN dealt with the rebounds...for HIS style, IMO, the pad reduction will be more keenly acute. Whereas goalies that "battle" more in the crease and "attack" the puck will be more apt to safely direct rebounds.

[Dr. Doom]

Originally Posted by zyzz

I want Bernier.

I want Nelson Mandela.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by thefoss1957

I think that for SOME goalies, ANY reduction in pad coverage will be significant.

Take Bishop, for instance, who has been mentioned often in this thread. I noticed, during last year's SC finals, that he was rather passive, and often just let the puck hit him, THEN dealt with the rebounds...for HIS style, IMO, the pad reduction will be more keenly acute. Whereas goalies that "battle" more in the crease and "attack" the puck will be more apt to safely direct rebounds.

Keep in mind, he had the torn groin in the finals, so he had to be passive.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Going with the assumption that Murray is 100% not available.

1. Vasilevsky/Bishop (I think only Vas is available)
2. Reimer
3. Anderson/Gibson
4. Kuemper
5. MAF

Not necessarily my ranking of ability, but ability in consideration of cost. I think every one of those guys can be a good starter (or already is a great one).

Disagree. Bishop will get moved. He's a year from UFA. They'll go with the younger, much cheaper goalie.