The only question I have about this entire debate is why the Redskins are at the forefront the criticism (not that they shouldn't be criticized). At least their logo looks pretty cool. I would view the Cleveland Indians as the most offensive team and logo out there. That goofy Indian cartoon character is far more offensive and just seems to be mocking natives.
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The only question I have about this entire debate is why the Redskins are at the forefront the criticism (not that they shouldn't be criticized). At least their logo looks pretty cool. I would view the Cleveland Indians as the most offensive team and logo out there. That goofy Indian cartoon character is far more offensive and just seems to be mocking natives.
Well, they have started to go away from that logo with a C.
The other thing is they are pretty irrelevant when it comes to baseball (this is coming from an Indians fan) so nobody really notices/cares. The Redskins are one of the more "prestigious" teams in the NFL so they get a lot more headlines.
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The only question I have about this entire debate is why the Redskins are at the forefront the criticism (not that they shouldn't be criticized). At least their logo looks pretty cool. I would view the Cleveland Indians as the most offensive team and logo out there. That goofy Indian cartoon character is far more offensive and just seems to be mocking natives.
His name is also Chief Wahoo... and fans in attendance used to cheer by means of a stereotypical native american chant while doing a "tomahawk chop" with their arms... which, yeah, I'm not the guy who's going to be banging hard on the cultural sensitivity drum, but that's pretty cringe-worthy.
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Have the Indians not strived away from using Chief Wahoo? I don't see him anywhere on their site, but I don't know how broadly they have stopped using him.
His name is also Chief Wahoo... and fans in attendance used to cheer by means of a stereotypical native american chant while doing a "tomahawk chop" with their arms... which, yeah, I'm not the guy who's going to be banging hard on the cultural sensitivity drum, but that's pretty cringe-worthy.
lots to go around
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
This thread is hilarious and sad at the same time. People making points like "its a free country" "i wouldnt be offended by the term viking and i'm of nordic descent" "the polls show that out of all the non-native people surveyed, only 5 percent found it offensive", "you guys are just a bunch of sensitive politically correct crybabies" "its not as bad as the N word so its cool"
Blackhawks, indians, redskins...
They are insensitive terms at the very least. These people have gone through a lot. They continue to go through a lot. Nobody seems to care about their issues and problems.
What if the Hamburg Freezers changed their name to the Hamburg Judenschwein and made a logo of a fat Jewish banker with a long nose and money falling out of his pockets. I would be very upset about that. As most people would be. But is it that much different from the native american logos and names? Or are people just more sympathetic and sensitive to the suffering of jews and african-americans.
People we care about > people we dont care about
Same reason the facebook profile pics were changed for paris and belgium but not for the countless other terrible losses of human life to terrorists, nevermind the hundreds of thousands of civilians who have died in the middle east as a result of the conflict. The whole world reached out to the victims working for charlie hebdo. However no such gesture was to be seen when a sikh temple was shot up, or a black church for that matter; violently killing several people. #whitelivesmatter
I think this is because we tend to value certain peoples lives and concerns over the lives and concerns of others. I think this particular issue stems from a western/european/christo-judean world view. Most people just dont give a flying crap. That is until someone offends them, their religion (or lack of), their ancestry etc.
The same newspaper that ran the controversial cartoon of the muslim prophet with a bomb on his head; chose to reject a cartoon of jesus christ being lampooned on the cross. Their reason was that while it wasnt an issue of freedom of speech/expression - they found it insensitive and inflammatory.
This isnt just the case in our society. It is the case in africa, asia, etc. Chinese people generally dont care about tibet. Typically black south africans cant be bothered with the issues facing white south africans. Ethiopians couldnt care less about issues in somalia. etc. It is kind of a pack mentality. "this doesnt concern us".
Furthermore this is a common theme in the western 1st world nations. We (as a society/culture) dont mind offending minorities. From the aboriginals, to muslims, even mexicans. I remember a joke dave chapelle made about "what if cops in america were indiscriminately shooting gay and transgender people". I think the response from the public would be different. There would be more outrage. What if donald trump went up and had a speech labeling african americans as thieves, criminals and rapists and suggested we boat them all back to west africa where they were taken from? What about irish americans, or italian americans? I dont think it would be tolerated as much.
I think our culture and society is inherently, albeit subconsciously sexist, racist, xenophobic and intolerant. I've heard people say some of the most insanely offensive things while giggling and joking about. As if making fun of native people, black people, muslims, etc is some kind of a pass time or cultural norm. Its all ok as long as we arent offended. I heard a co-worker of mine recently remark 'wow look at that chick, shes actually pretty good looking for a black girl'. I've been in the line at a movie theater and overheard the couple infront of me mocking and making fun of a native child who couldnt have been any older than 10. I once had a gentleman try to explain to me for nearly an hour how caucasian christian people basically civilized the whole world and if it werent for them people would be chasing buffalo and living in poop-huts. He also tried to justify slavery by something called the 'curse of ham' from the bible.
I think the issue is a lot bigger than people think. These logos are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the marginalization of the 'others'. Not just in our western, '1st world' societies but around the world. Most brazilians dont care about the amazon tribes and the clear cutting of their sacred rain-forests. While many of the issues i've covered in my rant have to do with the western world...this is a global problem. Most people in africa dont care about the issues facing albinos in africa etc etc.
I think the world has a deficiency of empathy and an abundance of racial/national/religious/ethnic pride and identity. People identify more with their religion, class, ethnicity, countrymen - than their fellow human beings.
We wont change much by simply petitioning the redskins, indians and blackhawks to change their names. People need to begin identifying with each other as humans. Trying to relate, discuss, etc. There isnt much dialogue or even interaction between different groups people on these topics so the other will remain the other. Some kind of sub-human who's problems are not ours.
Last edited by Crumpy-Gunt; 05-19-2016 at 05:40 PM.
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I think part of the problem with a lot of natives not being offended, is that they've been poorly educated on the subject. Another explanation is their great twisted sense of humour.
Myself I'm offended or embarrassed when I run across these logos and made up scenarios of native, music, dancing, dress or whatever. The drum is a sacred part of natives life and anyone understanding this would be offended when used at a sporting event.
Sure there are other problems first nations face but this is one that is easily solved and is in your face offensive.
The "Seminoles" name, chosen by students in a 1947 vote, alludes to Florida's Seminole people who in the early nineteenth century resisted efforts of the United States government to remove them from Florida.[4] Since 1978 the teams have been represented by the symbols Osceola and Renegade. The symbol represents an actual historical figure, Seminole war leader Osceola, whose clothing represents appropriate period dress. The athletic logo, in use since the early 1970s, shows a profile of a shouting Seminole warrior in circle. The model for the logo was Florida State music faculty member Thomas Wright, composer of the Florida State University Fight Song and Victory Song. The use of names and images associated with Seminole history is officially sanctioned by the Seminole Tribe of Florida.[5]
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The "Seminoles" name, chosen by students in a 1947 vote, alludes to Florida's Seminole people who in the early nineteenth century resisted efforts of the United States government to remove them from Florida.[4] Since 1978 the teams have been represented by the symbols Osceola and Renegade. The symbol represents an actual historical figure, Seminole war leader Osceola, whose clothing represents appropriate period dress. The athletic logo, in use since the early 1970s, shows a profile of a shouting Seminole warrior in circle. The model for the logo was Florida State music faculty member Thomas Wright, composer of the Florida State University Fight Song and Victory Song. The use of names and images associated with Seminole history is officially sanctioned by the Seminole Tribe of Florida.[5]
Just another case of cultural appropriation by Europeans.
I'll make a prediction, in sometime in your future you'll wonder how you could've beeen so wrong.
The only way I'd see support Washington changing the name of the Redskins is if they become the Washington Whites. It may catch on...Cleveland can change their name from the Indians to the Cleveland Crackers and there'll be no more Blackhawks in Chicago, they'll be the Chicago Paleskins.
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Just another case of cultural appropriation by Europeans.
I'll make a prediction, in sometime in your future you'll wonder how you could've beeen so wrong.
so you can't answer? You're offended because you've somehow been convinced that Native American imagery is offensive. That's asinine. Lol Europeans. You mean floridians in the 40s?
Fact of the matter is that 90% of NAs probably don't care about a lot of this sports crap. They care about health care, poverty, suicide and unemployment. Changing these names is not likely to fix any of those issues. Using the non-offensive names and traditions can probably do a lot to make people care about the plight of NAs.
I'll make a prediction. Some time in your future you'll realize you never cared in the first place and you'll move on to some new thing to be offended about when you realize that not every use of NA imagery is offensive.
Last edited by Cecil Terwilliger; 05-19-2016 at 08:04 PM.
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How does it offend you? And how do you know why members of the Seminole Tribe find it offensive?
I don't know how any of the Seminole people feel about it but I find it offensive. I know a little of first nations traditions and wearing a headdress and beating drums at a sporting event is against their beliefs.
