Scenario: If YOU had to a pick a dman at 6 which one?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by jmac98

And while you are right in that Calgary tends to put a higher priority on D (as evidenced by our existing core of D) than others, I would think to all things holy that if there's only 1 other team who might have adopted a similar mindset after such infamy, that it's Edmonton. And since they pick ahead of us and should they not trade it, you're now looking them taking one of the two perceived best dmen while you're then left with only 1 choice for consideration thereafter realistically. And should this happen, you're also now looking at either one of Dubois and Tkathcuk as being available to you, which is a different perceived tier than the Nylanders or Browns or whomever else at forward that would otherwise be the next BPA.

Yeah if EDM or VAN takes a dman I think the Flames sprint to the podium and grab one of Tkachuk/Dubois. I think this poll is predicated on the idea that Tkachuk/Dubois go 4/5. I do think some people are underrating the chance that one of Tkachuk/Dubois could fall to us. Although I do think the smart money right now would be on them going 4/5.

What I think is actually a very likely scenario is that EDM trades down into the 6-9 range and takes a dman. Probably a scenario we haven't hashed out enough. Chiarelli has gone on record saying they are looking into dealing down if the value is there. He's gone on record saying picks 4-9 will be very good players. If that happens it could definitely cause things to change drastically. Here's a few scenarios that I don't think are unrealistic where we land one of Tkachuk/Dubois

1. EDM trades down with a team that isn't Calgary and the team that trades into #4 takes Dubois. VAN might be hoping for Dubois and if he's not there they potentially grab Brown or a d-man or trade down. Tkachuk could fall to us in the scenario or VAN may be amenable to trading down with us in that scenario for fairly cheap.
2. CGY trades up to #4 and takes one of the powerwingers

My idea that the Flames may take a d-man at #6 is only if Tkachuk/Dubois are gone. If they are available I think they fit our needs better and are legit picks in that range. I'm not sure how big the appetite to trade up is if they like 6 players this draft.

Plenty of intrigue and that's why I'm listening to as many interviews out of EDM and VAN as possible in order to get the best read possible on who they might be favouring and their chances of dealing down.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by New Era

If I had to, I go with Juolevi. Best all around skill set IMO. Thinks the game the best and makes the best plays. Unfortunately I don't see him as being any better than Andersson in any aspect of his game. If it were me I'd trade down if someone wanted the pick. None of the defensemen look like anything more than 2nd pair guys in the long run. We should address other more pressing needs in this draft.

If the best d-man in this year's draft is no better than the player picked 53rd last year, then this will be a historic, astonishingly bad draft.

[dissentowner]

Joelevi by a landslide. As for Chychrun I wouldn't pick him even if we were picking outside the top 10. You can't teach hockey IQ.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Joelevi by a landslide. As for Chychrun I wouldn't pick him even if we were picking outside the top 10. You can't teach hockey IQ.

Just curious since I can't remember, are you one of the guys who has watched some OHL this year? Or what are you basing the lack of hockey IQ on? U18s? Reports? Just curious.

Scouts seem to think his defensive IQ is strong. What I noticed from the U18s was an occasional poor decision outletting the puck. I can't decide if that shows a fundamental hockey IQ issue or not.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Just curious since I can't remember, are you one of the guys who has watched some OHL this year? Or what are you basing the lack of hockey IQ on? U18s? Reports? Just curious.

I am a season ticket holder for the London Knights. It is between live viewings and what he showed at the U18. Don't get me wrong, I am no pro scout and could be totally wrong on it. I just think you if you are going to draft one of those D why would you not take the guy who thinks the game the best? Other than not running guys over there is no weakness to Juolevi's game.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I am a season ticket holder for the London Knights. It is between live viewings and what he showed at the U18. Don't get me wrong, I am no pro scout and could be totally wrong on it. I just think you if you are going to draft one of those D why would you not take the guy who thinks the game the best? Other than not running guys over there is no weakness to Juolevi's game.

Just curious to hear your thoughts but does Juolevi benefit from being on the ice with Marner, Tkachuk, & Dvorak a lot.

I just worry that his strong performance this year may be from playing with two offensive powerhouses.

A little easier to look like a strong all-around d-man when making outlet passes to Marner & Tkachuk (And Laine/Puljujarvi for the national team).

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Just curious to hear your thoughts but does Juolevi benefit from being on the ice with Marner, Tkachuk, & Dvorak a lot.

I just worry that his strong performance this year may be from playing with two offensive powerhouses.

A little easier to look like a strong all-around d-man when making outlet passes to Marner & Tkachuk (And Laine/Puljujarvi for the national team).

Well I would be an idiot if I said he doesn't, anyone would. That being said it doesn't change the fact he is a really smart player and I think those guys in London also benefit from his ability to think the game, make great passes, and know when to jump into the rush. As far as national play go' he was amazing, even when the big 2 were not on the ice and a huge reason why they won imo.

[1qqaaz]

I've seen Bean play quite a bit, and I think he's fantastic. The poll is asking who "YOU" would pick, so I went with Bean. I would trade down a few spots first though.

If not, probably Chychrun, he seems pretty all-around.

[Samonadreau]

If it was my call and they wanted to target a D, I would trade down and take Fabbro.

Is that cheating?

[Calgary4LIfe]

I find it impossible to pick one.

Juloevi seems to have the most hockey sense, and that to me is really important. Maybe the calmest guy out of the three.

Sergachev is the biggest and has the best shot from the point, which is always a huge asset for a team. He - like the other big 3 - is also good in his own zone.

Chychrun has people saying 'bad hockey sense', and people saying 'over-played and injured'. He probably has the most complete set of tools, but does he really know how to use them all very well? I don't know... he is easily the best of the three if you think he does have good hockey sense and just needs a change of scenery.

I am just going to go with Sergachev for now. Flames need some bigger defencemen with high-end skill. I love Kylington and Andersson, but they are not big. Ditto for Hickey. (though they are far from undersized).

[jmac98]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Flames need some bigger defencemen with high-end skill. I love Kylington and Andersson, but they are not big. Ditto for Hickey. (though they are far from undersized).

This is why I suggested targeting Day with possibly our late second round or early 3rd round pick. I agree with you.

[Itse]

These affected my opinion a lot. (Probably more than they should have.)

Craig Button:
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/video/...juolevi~857101
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/video/...hychrun~855255

Where do they project?
Juolevi: "1/2 defenceman, an anchor on the top line"
Chychrun: "2/3 defenceman, not quite sure he's elite"

Okay, so go with Juolevi then

[Imported_Aussie]

I am torn between Juolevi and Sergachev - Picked Juolevi as I feel he is a more likely #2 guy, whereas Sergachev is either a two way monster top pairing guy or a depth D.
Juolevi fits the Flames current identity, whereas Sergachev fits a need. The hockey sense strike against Chychrun worries me.
Bean has skill, but is a bit more boom/bust.
Fabbro even more so - would look at them if I was picking 10-15, but not at 6, or even trading back into the 8/9 spot

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If the best d-man in this year's draft is no better than the player picked 53rd last year, then this will be a historic, astonishingly bad draft.

know who else was once picked 53rd?

Lidstrom.

this is atrocious logic.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

know who else was once picked 53rd?

Lidstrom.

this is atrocious logic.

No kidding. Shae Weber at 49th overall says hi and that's considered one of the all-time great drafts. I guess Phaneuf is the better player because he was top 10 in that draft.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

know who else was once picked 53rd?

Lidstrom.

this is atrocious logic.

Well suggesting Andersson is in anyway comparable to Lidstrom seems equally atrocious to me.

Sure Andersson has impressed and has probably boosted his draft stock. He'd go higher in a redraft. But I don't think it's "atrocious logic" to think that one of the top 3 dmen taken this year has a higher potential than him.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

know who else was once picked 53rd?

Lidstrom.

this is atrocious logic.

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

No kidding. Shae Weber at 49th overall says hi and that's considered one of the all-time great drafts. I guess Phaneuf is the better player because he was top 10 in that draft.

LOL! So Andersson is a first-ballot hall-of-famer now?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by jmac98

This is why I suggested targeting Day with possibly our late second round or early 3rd round pick. I agree with you.

I also really like what's being said about Markus Neimelainen. Could be a steal with the Flames own 2nd round pick. He is a huge D man to with great skating.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

LOL! So Andersson is a first-ballot hall-of-famer now?

Did anyone say he is? The player picked 53rd last year could ultimately be the best player between two drafts without being a first-ballot hall of famer.

What's more, you're operating on a base assumption that the best defenseman in this year's draft will be one of the names we know (Chychrun et al).

The best defenseman in the 2016 draft could be taken anywhere in this draft and end up a HoFer. It could be a name you've never even heard, like Alfons Malmström or something. Draft position for defensemen means little, and using it to determine what is a "historic, astonishingly bad draft" is... terrible logic.

A case could be made that these were the best Dmen in their drafts:

2001 - Giordano Undrafted
2002 - Keith 54th OA
2003 - Weber 49th OA or Burns 20th OA
2004 - Edler 91st OA
2005 - Letang 62nd OA
2006 - Johnson 1st OA
2007 - Subban 43rd OA
2008 - Doughty/Pietrangelo/Karlsson/Josi/Brodie all over the place
2009 - Hedman 2nd OA
2010 - Klingberg 131st OA
2011 - Gostisbehere Undrafted

By your logic, getting any defenseman who's as good as a 1st overall like Erik Johnson means this is a great draft yet getting no defenseman who's as good as Letang or Keith would mean it's a terrible draft. Don't you see the inconsistency there?

Use a consistent ranking system that actually makes sense. "If this draft has no #1 Defenseman who gets x amount of Norris Votes, then it's historically a terrible draft". Don't use a ranking system based relatively on former draft positions.

That was my point about Lidstrom being a 53rd overall pick. Not "Andersson will repeat history and become a first ballot hall of famer". I never said anything like that. Andersson being a 53rd overall means nothing four, five years from now just as Juolevi being a 4th overall will mean nothing five, six years from now.

[Sylvanfan]

I think the thought is that the top defenseman in this years draft should rate as a better shot to be a good NHL player, than the defenseman picked towards the end of the second round in last years draft. In any given draft the player picked 53rd could be as good as the top pick, and certainly as good as say the 3rd pick in years when there isn't an Ovechkin, Crosby, or Connor McDaigle to be had.

Really if you go back like 20 years who have the Flames picked for defenseman in the first round, I can only count 4. Granted I'm not using hockey db, this is off the top of my head.

Morris in 96
Phaneuf in 03
Pelech in 05
Tom in 09

That's not very many. There's 2 years in 2010 and 2015 where they had no first round pick and I think 2013 was the only year they've had more than one pick in the first round. Conversely, they've picked goaltenders twice in that time frame.

So as much as the Flames say they value defence over forward...this is a team that's picked a lot of wingers in the first round....and poorly I may add.

Armed with some second round picks, they might look to use those to go pick a few more to add to the stable this year as well.

Fata, Saprykin, Kobasew, Nystrom, Chucko, Nemisz, Baertschi, Poirier, Klimchuck