2016 NHL Draft

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But there is probably bias in the lists he chose. Cox? Seriously?

Changing out some of the lists for others out there would likely change the picture a bit.

The article over-states the consensus significantly, IMO.

I like the writer, he does some great stuff, but his logic is really flawed in this one.

The thing that pops out to me is something like 11 different guys go top 6 in those lists. That isn't a consensus.

The fact that they average to 6 guys being in the mix on most occasions only points to the fact that wild cards aside 6 guys tend to end up in the same place.

Calgary's group is individual. They aren't an average.

[iloveicedhockey]

I agree that the two younger nylanders are independent players and should be treated as such, though hasn't there been concern with both this season with regards to drive/motivation? I don't think it's a huge stretch that they would have similar attitudes in some instances.

[Monahan For Mayor]

Has Nylander ever been compared to a bigger Mikael Granlund, with a elite level shot ?

[868904]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

Funny how we can't talk about Alex Nylander without bringing up his father and brother. It's like saying Scott Neidermeyer couldn't be any good because of Rob.

Rob was a good player, just not near as good as Scott. It also wasn't an issue of character or competitiveness with the Niedermayers. The strength of the Niedermayers was their skating and IQ. Both players were great skaters and played a real cerebral game.

I always thought that had Rob played defense, he would have been a much better player. Scott never really put up big offensive numbers, which is okay if you are an all around defenseman. Rob was also a good all around player, but because he was a forward, he needed to put up points to "Prove" how good he was.

[JJ1532]

Originally Posted by iloveicedhockey

We really need something else to talk about, the draft is so so far away.

Whilst it is linked, the combine is only 2 weeks away. Should give us some more to talk about, especially if a prospect can't do a pull up!

[iloveicedhockey]

Is that where we get realistic player heights and weights too?

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by New Era

I have no idea why this guy remains relevant? His list is just so off the wall.

His lists generate buzz/revenue/traffic.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

His lists generate buzz/revenue/traffic.

Interesting trade off. Reputation for a few hits/traffic. Doesn't seem like a great long term strategy.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by iloveicedhockey

Is that where we get realistic player heights and weights too?

Yeah that'll be a couple weeks after if at all. I cannot remember if they released that information to the public last year.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Interesting trade off. Reputation for a few hits/traffic. Doesn't seem like a great long term strategy.

At the same time, if you trot out the same list year after year that everyone else does, then people will stop reading.

Which is the better long-term strategy? I have no idea. I'm sure strong arguments could be made for each side.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by 868904

Something interesting in the aHL playoffs, Sheldon Keefe (potential coach candidate) openly questioned William Nylanders' competitiveness. Now Alex is his own guy but that really is the big question mark with the Nylanders, all world skill, question on competitiveness.

For Alex to be touted as such an elite talent, his regular season numbers are pretty much the same as Logan Brown who is considered not nearly as skilled, which suggests that Alex isn't showing up all the time.

In Alex's defense though, he has played well when it matters in the WJC and the OHL playoffs.

I'm really torn between whether I like this player for the Flames or not.

William Nylander looked pretty good to me when he lit up the Flames in Toronto.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

William Nylander looked pretty good to me when he lit up the Flames in Toronto.

Wasn't Hiller in net?

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by 868904

Rob was a good player, just not near as good as Scott. It also wasn't an issue of character or competitiveness with the Niedermayers. The strength of the Niedermayers was their skating and IQ. Both players were great skaters and played a real cerebral game.

I always thought that had Rob played defense, he would have been a much better player. Scott never really put up big offensive numbers, which is okay if you are an all around defenseman. Rob was also a good all around player, but because he was a forward, he needed to put up points to "Prove" how good he was.

True. Perhaps I should have used the example that perhaps we shouldn't take Tkachuk because many thought Keith was a jerk. That reasoning is irrelevant to whether we take his son.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by New Era

I have no idea why this guy remains relevant? His list is just so off the wall. If half the players are available as late as he suggests, the Flames could be coming away from this draft with a ridiculous haul. There are some very talented big men that he has slotted behind a bunch of tiny point generators, which just doesn't make sense. Pronman loves his small skill players, and this draft he's gone off the deep end.

........ doesn't Craig Button get praised on here for the exact same thing?

Pronman isn't suggesting that's how the draft will play out, it's just his personal evaluations of players.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

........ doesn't Craig Button get praised on here for the exact same thing?

how dare you bring logic into this discussion!

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

........ doesn't Craig Button get praised on here for the exact same thing?

Button's choices are sometimes unique but they aren't predictable with the bias Pronman exhibits.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I like the writer, he does some great stuff, but his logic is really flawed in this one.

The thing that pops out to me is something like 11 different guys go top 6 in those lists. That isn't a consensus.

The fact that they average to 6 guys being in the mix on most occasions only points to the fact that wild cards aside 6 guys tend to end up in the same place.

Calgary's group is individual. They aren't an average.

Serious question: in Calgary establishing a board don't they take all the information from their scouts and arrive at a consensus? with the number of prospects out there, i doubt Button sees all of them in person, so he has to rely on our scouts input...

Maybe it's semantics, and it varies by organization, but undoubtedly, all teams arrive at their draft board through consensus within their organization...

for some reason, people have it in their minds that 'consensus' or "metalists" are a bad thing or less accurate. I would be very, very surprised if any organzation is drafting off a list generates by one individual.

now ultimately, its the GMs call when they are on the clock and they don't have to go off of any board...

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Button's choices are sometimes unique but they aren't predictable with the bias Pronman exhibits.

Well as far as I know Button is the only resource to even have somebody like Brown in his top 10, yet people want to scrutinize Pronman for having Keller (who is generally in the mix from 6-10) a couple spots earlier? I mean, just like Button, he's personally scouted Keller, and there's really not a lot to dislike except for his size. And when size is becoming less and less of a factor in the NHL, it seems like pretty reasonable logic to me, even If you disagree.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Well as far as I know Button is the only resource to even have somebody like Brown in his top 10, yet people want to scrutinize Pronman for having Keller (who is generally in the mix from 6-10) a couple spots earlier? I mean, just like Button, he's personally scouted Keller, and there's really not a lot to dislike except for his size. And when size is becoming less and less of a factor in the NHL, it seems like pretty reasonable logic to me, even If you disagree.

I don't follow Pronman but it isn't just his choice of Keller that is predictable. He seems to prefer the smaller scoring players like his choice of Drouin as his top pick in 13. A year ago he had Kylington at 11 when he didn't go until 60.

[Ashasx]

A lot of people would have been okay if the Flames had taken Kylington at 15. A lot of people predicted Kylington to go earlier. That isn't a good example.

Again, it's not Pronman's prediction of where the players will go in the draft, it's his personal evaluations of who he thinks the best players will be. Just like Button.

There's nothing odd about this and I don't get the outrage. His ranking really isn't even that different than a lot of others out there.