That Harvard article seems to indicate that it is more an absolute numbers game than anything.
And by that, I mean that smoking 50 times total, is their baseline for having achieved "heavy use."
50 times is pretty easy to hit. Say those who use it as a teen do so twice a month. That's two years of smoking. That's all it takes to hit the 50 threshold.
At the end of the day, maybe the incidence rate only increases a few percent. The issue remains that this is a drug that causes lung disease in addition to amplifying psychosis.
You do realize the severe cases of psychosis in schizophrenia are not caused by smoking weed right? I'm not sure I've seen you acknowledge this and it seems to be your biggest issue.
The only proven studies have shown that drugs such as weed and LSD can speed up the rate in which the brain develops schizophrenia which usually doesn't show itself until your 20's. That means it might occur in your early twenties when it would otherwise occur in your late twenties. Obviously that's still not a good thing as regular teen smokers are taking away several years of mental stability.
But it's not this common plague that you're making it out to be. As I said earlier in the day, if this is the real issue you want to fight then the answer is obviously not keeping it illegal or decriminalizing it. You are saying it's an issue but providing no solutions.
Last edited by Bandwagon In Flames; 05-13-2016 at 04:03 PM.
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Not to mention the Swedish study that keeps getting cited (not a Harvard study, was only mentioned in one article written for Harvard 5 years ago) is nearly 30 years old and has not been replicated since.
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And to those who think it's 5+ years out, according to this article it already sounds like the infrastructure is greatly expanding right now in Toronto (technically licensed as medical marijuana). Obviously this is all a grey area right now, but there are doctors around Canada that are willing to give anyone access to full medical marijuana prescriptions. It's not just Vancouver with dispensaries popping up anymore.
Not to mention the Swedish study that keeps getting cited (not a Harvard study, was only mentioned in one article written for Harvard 5 years ago) is nearly 30 years old and has not been replicated since.
Or the fact that the "studies" peter keeps referencing that show increased pot usage among youths in places where pot has been legalized is actually only one study, over a small sample period, with limited info on its methodologies. The studies I posted on Portugal and the Netherlands showed that although the number of people who will try pot tends to increase, there isn't really statistically significant increase in heavy or frequent users.
EDIT: I should add that Portgual was decriminalized and the Netherlands basically enacted a "non-enforcement" policy and not full legalization but in the Netherlands it's for all intents and purposes the same thing.
EDIT #2: And I didn't add the study I found on Washington State which showed no increase among youths because I felt it had the same flaws as the Colorado study, mainly that the amount of time studied was too small to come to any conclusions and it lacked info on its methodologies.
Last edited by rubecube; 05-13-2016 at 04:54 PM.
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In California where medical marijuana has been legal for many years in an unregulated environment, marijuana use in teens has remained less prevalent than the years before the marijuana was legal according to results from the 13th Biennial California Student Survey. Stepping back to 2012, a study entitled, “Medical Marijuana Laws and Teen Marijuana Use” by D. Mark Anderson, Ben Hanson and Daniel Rees did not find that legalizing medical marijuana increased pot use in teens. They actually found that during the time period they collected data, pot use increased among teens, but not in the states where medical marijuana was legal.
Why is it always the people accusing others of "mental gymnastics" who tend to present posts like: "Here is a study, if it says this one thing and we assume this, this, this, this, and this, my concerning conclusion makes sense!"
There are two problems that keep occurring in the legalisation conversation (or one problem occurring on both sides). It's true, you do have a select group of losers celebrating the culture and presenting pot as much more harmless than it is and ignoring real facts in the process. On the other hand, you have a select group of hand wringers that are basically acting out a modern day version of Reefer Madness for the Internet age.
Yes it's bad for you, yes it'll be legalised, no it won't turn all the kids into psychotic/schizophrenic pot heads filling up our mental institutions. I mean, people are legitimately saying some things not far from the plot of Reefer Madness:
Quote:
a 1936-1939 American propaganda exploitation drama film revolving around the melodramatic events that ensue when high school students are lured by pushers to try marijuana—from a hit and run accident, to manslaughter, suicide, attempted rape, hallucinations, and descent into madness due to marijuana addiction.
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You do realize the severe cases of psychosis in schizophrenia are not caused by smoking weed right? I'm not sure I've seen you acknowledge this and it seems to be your biggest issue.
The only proven studies have shown that drugs such as weed and LSD can speed up the rate in which the brain develops schizophrenia which usually doesn't show itself until your 20's. That means it might occur in your early twenties when it would otherwise occur in your late twenties. Obviously that's still not a good thing as regular teen smokers are taking away several years of mental stability.
But it's not this common plague that you're making it out to be. As I said earlier in the day, if this is the real issue you want to fight then the answer is obviously not keeping it illegal or decriminalizing it. You are saying it's an issue but providing no solutions.
The word "amplify" =/= the word "caused."
And before I get accused of being a hand wringer, please understand that I was close enough to witness people close to me who were habitual users develop mental illness.
No where have I said it isn't someone's right to smoke. All I've tried to do is raise awareness and create some discussion that smoking pot may come with more long term consequences than are currently understood.
Have at it, enjoy your weekend. Light one up if that's your thing.
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Last edited by IliketoPuck; 05-17-2016 at 02:18 PM.
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Nice to see some balance brought back to this discussion.
Other than peters arrogant argumentative style, constant hyperbole and ignoring counterpoints completely (I am happy to back this up with quotes from this thread if need be) I find the most disingenuous part of his argument the following. If he feels so strongly about children/teen usage what does he propose to do differently than the current system? Its clear our current system is broken when over 10% of eighth graders smoke pot and ~35% for 12th graders which is comparable to alcohol usage (in US and pretty sure these numbers are higher for pot in Canada).
I really think ILiketoPuck and Peter have a legitimate concern about teen usage rising and I hope that this is properly addressed when pot is legalized in Canada. I don't think kids should be abusing prescription drugs, pot, alcohol or tobacco until they can make mature and informed decision for themselves. Hopefully some of the millions of dollars in tax revenue that is raised from marijuana sales can be used to better educate kids on the dangers of all drugs, tobacco and alcohol.
Last edited by CASe333; 05-13-2016 at 06:36 PM.
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Put me in the group that thinks anyone who campaigns against marijuana legalisation but doesn't campaign against alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine is a massive hypocrite.
Anecdotally, going to high school in Calgary it was much easier to get weed than booze so we would usually get high instead of getting drunk. Buying liquor involved a getting a fake ID and finding a gullible seller. Buying weed involved knowing a dealer.
I do like that so many conservative types are so passionate about mental illness. I'm expecting we can count on your votes to go towards politicians that promote more mental health funding, yes?
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The songs make fun of people using weed and I would assume posters here would view it as such and nothing serious.
I was speaking to the term potheads. I assumed you were referring to the pro legalization folks in this thread. Maybe you're referring to actual potheads that might be reading the thread, but the term is pretty derogatory to blanket over everyone that is pro pot or general users. Maybe that wasn't your intention though.
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Originally Posted by Drak
I was speaking to the term potheads. I assumed you were referring to the pro legalization folks in this thread. Maybe you're referring to actual potheads that might be reading the thread, but the term is pretty derogatory to blanket over everyone that is pro pot or general users. Maybe that wasn't your intention though.
That wasn't my intention at all. The songs weren't serious so why would my comment about potheads be that way?
The above being said I do appreciate you asking for clarification.
You can buy weed online now. Just need a government issued ID, no medical card required.
You can... and it's insanely illegal, and it's been going on for a long time. You can probably order a bunch of crazy stuff online without an ID, remember silkroad or whatever it was called? You could get anything. For something that requires an ID you also need a prescription from an actual doctor. There's a wide gap between legal medicinal and illegal recreation and it seems like you have them confused.
I am going to re-post this study. Very few people actually seemed to have read it. It was accepted into The American Journal of Psychiatry in February 2016. This is current research.
For each year adolescent boys engaged in regular marijuana use, their expected level of subsequent subclinical psychotic symptoms rose by 21% and their expected odds of experiencing subsequent subclinical paranoia or hallucinations rose by 133% and 92%, respectively. The effect of prior regular marijuana use on subsequent subclinical psychotic symptoms persisted even when adolescents stopped using marijuana for a year. These effects were after controlling for all time-stable and several time-varying confounds. No support was found for reverse causation.
Meanwhile, here in Calgary, the DeGrood trial has started. If you recall, he was the young man who, appearing to have a psychotic episode, murdered 5 people. DeGrood was a heavy pot smoker in his teen years.
EDIT: My apologies. I can see past the pay wall as my workplace has a subscription to the journal text.
