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View Poll Results: Should the Flames buy anyone out this summer?
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Mason Raymond
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91 |
31.82% |
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Ladislav Smid (if healthy)
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20 |
6.99% |
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Matt Stajan
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30 |
10.49% |
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Dennis Wideman (if healthy)
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40 |
13.99% |
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Deryk Engelland
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2 |
0.70% |
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No buy outs
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103 |
36.01% |
05-13-2016, 07:46 AM
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#61
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Calgary
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Can't wait till next summer when all these dead weight contracts are done
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05-13-2016, 03:42 PM
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#62
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache
Face it, the team was bottom of the league in GA, and it was not just goaltending. Yes, Hiller crapped the bed after October/November and hurt the team, but October was on team D, not G.
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Right. October was the month that Brodie was out with an injury, Giordano was coming off of major surgery, and Hamilton was learning a system he had never played before. These are perfectly valid reasons for having a poor defensive showing, and none of them reflect on the quality of those three players.
The rest of the season, the team was almost dead even on goal differential despite having the worst goaltending in the league.
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05-13-2016, 03:59 PM
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#63
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
Right. October was the month that Brodie was out with an injury, Giordano was coming off of major surgery, and Hamilton was learning a system he had never played before. These are perfectly valid reasons for having a poor defensive showing, and none of them reflect on the quality of those three players.
The rest of the season, the team was almost dead even on goal differential despite having the worst goaltending in the league.
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What about the other 208 goals the Flames allowed the rest of the season? Their 2.97 ga/gp from November 1st onward would have still been 3rd worst in the league. Looking at goal differential to gauge defensive play makes no sense whatsoever. The goaltending was terrible, yes; but so was the defense.
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05-13-2016, 06:06 PM
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#64
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef
What about the other 208 goals the Flames allowed the rest of the season? Their 2.97 ga/gp from November 1st onward would have still been 3rd worst in the league.
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Now adjust that for the save percentage that they would have had with real goalies. It's been gone over in other threads.
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05-14-2016, 11:16 AM
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#65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
With everyone healthy Engelland was our 6th defenseman. He was healthy scratches a few times in favor of Smid. I do like what Englland brings but his salary is a little too rich. If he is in your top 4, you are not very good IMO. Which describes our team last year.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
Engelland spent more time in the top 4 in 2014-15 than in 2015-16. In neither year was he a regular top-4 defenceman.
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With respect to being scratched at times, maybe he is one of the guys where the opinion of coach and GM differed.
For the last quarter of the 14-15 season he was top 4. Good down the stretch paired with Brodie and they won a playoff round with him.
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05-14-2016, 11:24 AM
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#66
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Self-Suspension
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Wideman is way more of a black hole than Engelland. Engelland's a 6 that can play 4 if need be. Wideman is so slow and weak in the corners he shouldn't be in the NHL anymore yet he's nearly our highest paid dman... there's your problem.
The presence of such a player throws the entire d core out of balance as someone has to cover for him so instead of 2 dmen you have the equivalent of half a dman.
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05-14-2016, 12:41 PM
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#67
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
Now adjust that for the save percentage that they would have had with real goalies. It's been gone over in other threads.
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The worst stretch for the goalies was in October too. The defense played a part in the goalies having terrible numbers, the problem was both and that is likely what in the end cost Hartley his job; team defense under him as been very poor.
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05-14-2016, 02:26 PM
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#68
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache
For the last quarter of the 14-15 season he was top 4. Good down the stretch paired with Brodie and they won a playoff round with him.
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That was out of necessity, as Gio was hurt. But you know that. Engelland wouldn't have been a top 4 at any time last year with the roster healthy.
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05-14-2016, 02:47 PM
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#69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Cookin
That was out of necessity, as Gio was hurt. But you know that. Engelland wouldn't have been a top 4 at any time last year with the roster healthy.
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Yes I do know that. But when he was in the top 4, guess what he was? A top 4.
Maybe he should have been in a healthy top 4. Face it, the team was worst in the league defensively, and widely accepted as too passive.
Some coaches like the stay at home guy paired with the puck mover. Gio-Sarich was a great pairing a few years back.
For the worst team in the league defensively, say keeping pucks out of the net becomes a priority. No dispute that say a pairing of Gio-Brodie is made up of 2 players individually considered better overall than Engelland
But maybe there are diminishing returns in that the added offended by combining two puck movers is offset by a guy on defence.
Either way, glad that consensus on Engelland is not a buyout candidate
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05-14-2016, 04:22 PM
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#70
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Calgary
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How Bollig wasn't an option boggles my mind
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05-14-2016, 05:08 PM
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#71
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Pedro
How Bollig wasn't an option boggles my mind
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Pretty simple actually.
Bollig, if he can't make the Flames as the 13th/14th forward next season can be buried in the AHL and will still count $300,000 against the cap, then that's it...he'd be done.
However, if the Flames buy him out this summer instead, he will count for $383,333 against the cap next year, and then $433,333 against the cap the year after that.
So essentially, buying him would be a monumentally stupid thing to do.
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05-14-2016, 05:43 PM
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#72
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Franchise Player
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It's not even about cap savings for me, I just want some of these guys gone because there are better options.
Nakladal > Wideman
Shinkaruk > Raymond
Wotherspoon > Smid
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
Before you call me a pessimist or a downer, the Flames made me this way. Blame them.
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05-14-2016, 05:54 PM
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#73
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codynw
It's not even about cap savings for me, I just want some of these guys gone because there are better options.
Nakladal > Wideman
Shinkaruk > Raymond
Wotherspoon > Smid
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Even if what you say is true, why hurt our cap situation after next season just to see 3 very very average players at best a season sooner?
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05-14-2016, 11:11 PM
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#74
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Franchise Player
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Buying Engelland out is senseless. I will be interested to see if a new coach has him playing nastier.
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05-15-2016, 12:15 AM
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#75
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Paradise
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By the buy out period we will know more about the potential expansion draft rules - if Wideman's NMC makes him an automatic protected player he will be bought out, otherwise they will just try and trade him for anything with some salary retained if need be.
Other than that there will be no buyouts. Smid will remain on LTIR. Raymond and Bolig will at some point be sent to the minors.
Last edited by Samonadreau; 05-15-2016 at 12:19 AM.
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05-15-2016, 11:28 AM
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#77
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Calgary, AB
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The coach shouldn't be worried about increasing pending UFAs trade values but focused on winning games. If Raymond is on the second line the fans are in for a long season.
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05-15-2016, 12:36 PM
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#78
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Northern Crater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Struch
I voted No buy outs, hopefully the new coach is able to increase the trade deadline value of Raymond & Wideman by playing them on the power play units…
Gaudreau - Monahan - Colborne
Raymond - Bennett - Ferland
Bouma - Backlund - Frolik
Bollig - Stajan - Jooris
Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Wideman
Jokipakka - Engelland
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That's not the best case scenario unless you have someone REALLY special in goal. That lineup makes me a little sad honestly. If they go with that, I'll probably be watching youtube videos of the 2017 draft class more than I will the actual team next year.
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05-15-2016, 01:45 PM
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#79
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Appealing my suspension
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Just outside Enemy Lines
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If they're willing to let the bad contracts expire or hope by some miracle these guys play well enough to be traded. They might as well save money and not get a goaltender.
In my opinion carrying this many bad contracts tells me you really don't have to win next year. Which given where the rebuild is probably is okay. If they really do want to win they need to find a way to get much better value out of the Smid Wideman, Stajan, Bollig, and Raymond salary block. To me Engelland at least brings a solid chance to get you something of value. The rest to me can be replaced by more economical internal options. In fact keeping them around makes things tougher on the coach especially Wideman.
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Last edited by Sylvanfan; 05-15-2016 at 01:47 PM.
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05-15-2016, 06:31 PM
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#80
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Self-Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Struch
I voted No buy outs, hopefully the new coach is able to increase the trade deadline value of Raymond & Wideman by playing them on the power play units…
Gaudreau - Monahan - Colborne
Raymond - Bennett - Ferland
Bouma - Backlund - Frolik
Bollig - Stajan - Jooris
Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Wideman
Jokipakka - Engelland
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We have players in the minors better than Raymond, Bollig, Stajan and Wideman. Which of these guys are one way? Those four are a waste of a spot at this time, anyone would be better than Bollig. He's Tim Jackman 2.0.
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