Central Division Final - Stars vs Blues (Series tied 3-3)

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Is there any chance that Seguin plays tonight?? I'd be a lot more confident if he was there too...

Bruce LeVine ‎@BruceLeVinePuck
Coach Ruff says Tyler Seguin is say to day trying to get back. Still part of the process Not available to play Game 7

Doesn't look like there's any chance.

[Iniggywetrust]

Originally Posted by FiveSeven

Why are you complaining about people complaining?????

Romanuk is garbage. Fact. I don't need solutions to a non-problem.
He SUCKS. He is the LAST person that should be doing PBP.
Not gonna mute my TV, not gonna not watch hockey.
Just gonna say he sucks becausè it`s true.
Doesn't really require a rebuttal, you're not saying he's not trash, you're just complaining about the fact that people think he is trash and therefore say something about it.

You don't have to reply... He IS trash, if you think otherwise....okay I guess.

This is the last guy who should be doing pbp [IMG]

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Paul Romanuk is a national treasure.


Also, after previously cheering for the blues, despite the negative affect on our draft pick, I'm gonna cheer for the Stars tonight. Not only does it mean we get a 1st, but they're the home team, I like cheering for the home team. Most importantly it'll mean there'll be 4 "skilled" teams left. I tire of this must be big and bad and mean to succeed in the NHL narrative.

[The Yen Man]

Canadian hockey broadcasting is in pretty sad shape if Paul Romanuk is considered a national treasure. Guy is about as good as Rob Kerr as PBP.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Paul Romanuk is a national treasure.


Also, after previously cheering for the blues, despite the negative affect on our draft pick, I'm gonna cheer for the Stars tonight. Not only does it mean we get a 1st, but they're the home team, I like cheering for the home team. Most importantly it'll mean there'll be 4 "skilled" teams left. I tire of this must be big and bad and mean to succeed in the NHL narrative.

It's based on opening night rosters but the Stars aren't exactly small either, really no team left in the Western conference is small, the average weight of each team is actually quite big.

St.Louis: 205.1
San Jose: 204.2
Nashville: 205.7
Dallas: 204.1

Calgary: 195.5

I hate when Flames staff makes the statement about the team needing to be bigger that some fans just ignore the rest of the comment and think the Flames just want to get big, slow, and not skilled.

The management group always says the team needs to be bigger, faster, and more skilled which is right if they want to compete in the west.

[vicarious]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It's based on opening night rosters but the Stars aren't exactly small either, really no team left in the Western conference is small, the average weight of each team is actually quite big.

St.Louis: 205.1
San Jose: 204.2
Nashville: 205.7
Dallas: 204.1

Calgary: 195.5

I hate when Flames staff makes the statement about the team needing to be bigger that some fans just ignore the rest of the comment and think the Flames just want to get big, slow, and not skilled.

The management group always says the team needs to be bigger, faster, and more skilled which is right if they want to compete in the west.

What happens when you don't include Gaudreau in the calculation?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It's based on opening night rosters but the Stars aren't exactly small either, really no team left in the Western conference is small, the average weight of each team is actually quite big.

St.Louis: 205.1
San Jose: 204.2
Nashville: 205.7
Dallas: 204.1

Calgary: 195.5

I hate when Flames staff makes the statement about the team needing to be bigger that some fans just ignore the rest of the comment and think the Flames just want to get big, slow, and not skilled.

The management group always says the team needs to be bigger, faster, and more skilled which is right if they want to compete in the west.

It's about the perception of how the teams play. I'm pretty sure I clearly said big and bad and mean. I never said anything about heavy and tall.

Which fans are those? I can't recall seeing anyone recently argue that big equals slow. But I have seen tons of people equate big with bruising. LA, Anaheim and St Louis are known as mean teams and the perception is that skilled teams don't win. It just isn't true.


EDIT: Ok the guy below me is actually arguing big means slow. I retract my previous comment. lol

[heep223]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It's based on opening night rosters but the Stars aren't exactly small either, really no team left in the Western conference is small, the average weight of each team is actually quite big.

St.Louis: 205.1
San Jose: 204.2
Nashville: 205.7
Dallas: 204.1

Calgary: 195.5

I hate when Flames staff makes the statement about the team needing to be bigger that some fans just ignore the rest of the comment and think the Flames just want to get big, slow, and not skilled.

The management group always says the team needs to be bigger, faster, and more skilled which is right if they want to compete in the west.

Disagree. When the Flames say they need to get bigger and also more skilled, I roll my eyes because it's BS. What they mean is that they need to get bigger and I do believe in most cases that sacrifices speed and skill.

Guys who have great size and great physicality but don't sacrifice speed and skill are basically superstars that typically are gotten in the first round. You don't just decide to get these players. Which is why when the Flames say that I just roll my eyes.

Hate all you want!

Edit: when I say disagree I mean on the topic you're addressing about size vs skill. Not the first part of your post.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It's based on opening night rosters but the Stars aren't exactly small either, really no team left in the Western conference is small, the average weight of each team is actually quite big.

St.Louis: 205.1
San Jose: 204.2
Nashville: 205.7
Dallas: 204.1

Calgary: 195.5

I hate when Flames staff makes the statement about the team needing to be bigger that some fans just ignore the rest of the comment and think the Flames just want to get big, slow, and not skilled.

The management group always says the team needs to be bigger, faster, and more skilled which is right if they want to compete in the west.

It's still a poor narrative, considering the west has been won by


Chicago
L.A. on a game 7 overtime bounce over Chicago
Chicago
L.A.
Van
Chicago
Detroit
Detroit

That's six out of the last eight teams to come out of the West that play a style that people claim is a so-called Eastern Conference style, and a bounce away from seven.

Also using opening night rosters is a bit crazy. Going into this season did anyone not thinkg Russell, Hudler, Raymond would have been lame ducks one way or the other? Or that Kulak would not have been eventually sent down(he's listed at 187 lbs)?

Yet at the same time those Stars subtracted Jokipakka and added Russell to their blue line.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by heep223

Disagree. When the Flames say they need to get bigger and also more skilled, I roll my eyes because it's BS. What they mean is that they need to get bigger and I do believe in most cases that sacrifices speed and skill.

Guys who have great size and great physicality but don't sacrifice speed and skill are basically superstars that typically are gotten in the first round. You don't just decide to get these players. Which is why when the Flames say that I just roll my eyes.

Hate all you want!

Edit: when I say disagree I mean on the topic you're addressing about size vs skill. Not the first part of your post.

So you agree that guys that are big, quick, and skilled are superstars in the NHL that make your team better, and of course they are harder to acquire.

But then roll your eyes when Flames management says they need more of these types of players because you think they just mean Big, slow players.

So you want the Flames management group to say they are going to acquire players that don't make the team better or fit the bill as a "superstar" in the league - that seems like it would a stupid philosophy.

Personally I think you can decide to get those guys - it likely means drafting a guy like Brown instead of a guy like Keller in the first round. Or maybe try to sign a guy like Backes or Okposo even though it will hurt the cap a little.

The Dallas stars are actually a good example of this - Seguin (6'1" 200lbs), Spezza (6'3" 220), & Demers (6'1" 210) were all guys who were bigger but also skilled and quick that they acquired via a trade. They also drafted guys like Benn, Nichushkin, and Faksa who are bigger skilled players.

[ricardodw]

Nashville has 10 players playing more than 60 regular season games making 1 or more hits /game. They have 1 60 game player making less than .5 hits/game

Dallas has 9 players playing more than 60 regular season games making 1 or more hits /game. They have 4 60 game player making less than .5 hits/game

All players with more than 60 regular season games:

St.L has 9 > 1 or more hits /game. They have 3 < .5 hits/game

SJ has 8 > 1 or more hits /game. They have 3 < .5 hits/game

----


Vancouver is softest with 3 > 1 and 5 <.5

Flames and Oilers are 6 >1 and 3 < .5.

All the teams left in the west are Black and Blue on a regular consistent basis.

[Racki]

This may very well be the most significant hockey game of the post season for most of us. We actually have a stake in the game. I know I'll be on the edge of my seat cheering hard for a Stars win.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

It's still a poor narrative, considering the west has been won by


Chicago
L.A. on a game 7 overtime bounce over Chicago
Chicago
L.A.
Van
Chicago
Detroit
Detroit

That's six out of the last eight teams to come out of the West that play a style that people claim is a so-called Eastern Conference style, and a bounce away from seven.

Thing is all those teams listed are examples of what Treliving stated he wants this team to become in terms of being big and skilled.

It doesn't mean every player needs to have size but you need to have enough weight in the lineup to win come playoff time.

Detroit was a very skilled team, but they were also rounded out by guys that were tough to play against in those back to back cup finals. Guys like Fransen, Holmstrom, Kronwall, Draper, Cleary, Stuart, Kopecky, provided the size + skill combo needed in key roles to help the team succeed.

Chicago has done a great job of this as well in the years that they have been successful. Guys like Brouwer, Ladd, Byfuglien, Bolland, Seabrook, Kopecky, Bickell, Hjalmarrson, Shaw are all players that have provided combinations of size, skill, and speed into the Blackhawks lineup. Also helps that guys like Hossa, Toews, and Sadd were all decent sized bodies that provided some size in the top 6.

Of course we all know the Kings are big and skilled and don't think I need to list examples there.

Dallas, St.Louis, San Jose, & Nashville are all built like that this year - every one of those teams has loads of skill but they have some guys in the lineup that are pains in the ass to play against due to their size and speed.

People always seem to forget that big doesn't mean big & slow anymore like it did when D.Sutter was our GM.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

If there's one thing this board has taught me, it's that when I get my first play-by-play/analyst gig (what I am currently studying for), I need to be Foster Hewitt-like to be praised.

Zero chance this happens.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Thing is all those teams listed are examples of what Treliving stated he wants this team to become in terms of being big and skilled.

It doesn't mean every player needs to have size but you need to have enough weight in the lineup to win come playoff time.

And how is that any different from how top Eastern conference teams - the Penguins(Crosby/Malkin/Kunitz) or the Lightning (Hedman/Coburn/Stamkos/Sustr) are built?

My point is that the imaginary divide between "rough n tough west" and "soft, skilled East" is a perpetual myth. Yes, there are some especially big teams out here in the west - specifically Winnipeg, Anaheim, L.A. and St. Louis. Yet you don't need to be them to beat them in the west, but there are still claims like "Makes you wonder if any of the eastern teams would be able to make it out of the Pacific or the Central." and "Until a skill team beats a physical western conference style team in the finals, things will not change." Heck one of the big pieces St. Louis added this year that they lacked the past few years? Robbi Fabbri.

Certain teams get cherry-picked as the "Western" way to win... while they get knocked out in the first or second round to quick, speedy teams that can hang with them just fine. And meanwhile you have guys like Kesler making claims like "No man can withstand that many hits" as if hitting ensured the Ducks a series win over the Hawks. And also, the Jets have yet to win a playoff game in their franchise history.

People constantly ignore that our own Flames are not an especially small team anymore. Yet they think there's a desperate need to get way, way bigger.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by heep223

Disagree. When the Flames say they need to get bigger and also more skilled, I roll my eyes because it's BS. What they mean is that they need to get bigger and I do believe in most cases that sacrifices speed and skill.

Guys who have great size and great physicality but don't sacrifice speed and skill are basically superstars that typically are gotten in the first round. You don't just decide to get these players. Which is why when the Flames say that I just roll my eyes.

Hate all you want!

Edit: when I say disagree I mean on the topic you're addressing about size vs skill. Not the first part of your post.

Roll your eyes all you want, it certainly isn't BS. They certainly are looking to add big, fast, skilled players.

You can decide to get those players, that's the GM's job. You get them as you noted through the top of the draft. So this year we have a great chance to get a big, fast, skilled player. That's why anybody suggesting we take Keller at #6 is out to lunch IMO. You choose to get them through trade. Treliving has a wealth of picks and young prospects to be able to trade for a big, fast, skilled winger. And you can get through UFA. Last summer we added Frolik who has good size, speed and skill. This summer they may be able to grab another winger with size, speed and skill through UFA.

It's not impossible to add these types of players. It's hard but at least they are aiming properly instead of Feaster who just ignored the size component completely.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

And how is that any different from how top Eastern conference teams - the Penguins(Crosby/Malkin/Kunitz) or the Lightning (Hedman/Coburn/Stamkos/Sustr) are built?

My point is that the imaginary divide between "rough n tough west" and "soft, skilled East" is a perpetual myth. Yes, there are some especially big teams out here in the west - specifically Winnipeg, Anaheim, L.A. and St. Louis. Yet you don't need to be them to beat them in the west, but there are still claims like "Makes you wonder if any of the eastern teams would be able to make it out of the Pacific or the Central." and "Until a skill team beats a physical western conference style team in the finals, things will not change." Heck one of the big pieces St. Louis added this year that they lacked the past few years? Robbi Fabbri.

Certain teams get cherry-picked as the "Western" way to win... while they get knocked out in the first or second round to quick, speedy teams that can hang with them just fine. And meanwhile you have guys like Kesler making claims like "No man can withstand that many hits" as if hitting ensured the Ducks a series win over the Hawks. And also, the Jets have yet to win a playoff game in their franchise history.

People constantly ignore that our own Flames are not an especially small team anymore. Yet they think there's a desperate need to get way, way bigger.

Personally I just think the teams in the West are better built overall - has nothing to do with soft skilled vs rough n tough IMO it more that the teams in the west are skilled & big & fast.

Think the big thing in the West is that the top teams are all big, skilled, and also very fast. Kings, Ducks, Blues, Preds, Sharks, Stars are all actually pretty big teams, that also have a ton of skill, and can beat you in different ways. You don't have to be huge like the Jets and Kings, but you can't play small (and slow) and the issue is the Flames have done that at certain times the last 2 seasons.

I actually agree for the most part that the Flames are not as far away as some may think at this point in time. Especially if guys like Jankowski, Ferland, Poirier etc can take that next step. Issue is we have some veterans in the bottom 6 that don't really provide any size, and even worse no speed, which hurts the line up a lot. IMO the issue that some of our smaller guys were also quite slow (Stajan, Hudler, Wideman) or lacked hockey sense (Raymond) and you can't be small & play slow in this NHL. If you are going to be small you better be playing quick.

Personally I think a top 6 winger with good size and speed, injecting more youth into the bottom 6, and a d-man that is more of a bigger stay at home guy would really solve a lot of the problems.

[heep223]

Who the hell isn't trying to get big, skilled, physical, fast players? Saying the Flames need to get bigger without sacrificing skill is like saying that the team needs to get better to win the Stanley cup. It's not easy to do. Usually size sacrifices skill and speed. Which is why some posters worry about that strategy as opposed to BPA.

The Flames want to get bigger. In most cases, that means they will be slower and/or less skilled.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Personally I just think the teams in the West are better built overall - has nothing to do with soft skilled vs rough n tough IMO it more that the teams in the west are skilled & big & fast.

Think the big thing in the West is that the top teams are all big, skilled, and also very fast. Kings, Ducks, Blues, Preds, Sharks, Stars are all actually pretty big teams, that also have a ton of skill, and can beat you in different ways. You don't have to be huge like the Jets and Kings, but you can't play small (and slow) and the issue is the Flames have done that at certain times the last 2 seasons.

No disagreement. But the key is not to get caught up in size alone. If you look at the best teams in the league this year by possession stats, this is how they ranked:


L.A.
Pittsburgh (post-Sullivan)
Nashville
Anaheim
San Jose
Dallas
St. Louis
Washington
Tampa
Montreal
Chicago

Well we know that nine of these ten teams were playoff teams, and the one that wasn't would have been if they had their starting goalie instead of a guy they rushed out of the ECHL.

Four of ten are East teams, six of ten are west teams. So yes, the west in general has better teams. Both at the top and the middle. We also know all the teams that are still playing are from this group.

But the myth that Pittsburgh, Tampa, or Montreal couldn't hang in the west because they don't play a West style? Silly. No more silly than claiming the Chicago Blackhawks can't hang in the West. Good teams are good teams. The Lightning could be the defending champs right now if Bishop, Johnson, Kucherov all didn't get hurt in the SCF last year.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

Zero chance this happens.

Wow, thanks.