Looking into it a little more I do question just how impressive Puljujarvi has truly been in his draft year in the SM-Liiga, especially when comparing them to recent draft picks from Finland.
Feels to me like he is more in that second tier of players out of Finland, than the first tier with guys like Barkov. Although a guy like Rantanen did have a dominant performance in the AHL this season so who knows.
Still feels like outside of the amazing WJC performance that his season in the SM-Liiga would have him pegged more in the 5-10 range like a guy like Rantanen than a sure fire top 3 pick like Barkov (who even then was expected to be taken at 4 in his draft).
A lot has to do with how translatable scouts feel prospects are, and PPG has always been difficult to compare between players at the best of times.
53GP 13G 10A 23pts - does this tell you? Impressive? Someone that the Flames should keep an eye on?
Ok, it is a forward. More interested?
Ok, it was this kid's draft season, and it was in the KHL. You know, a 'pro' league after all. Sound interesting now? A bit more, right?
That's Ovechkin.
Now what about this:
34GP 3G 9A 12PTS
Also in the KHL. Not very impressive. That's Malkin. He went 2nd overall that year. I would bet that some fans in Pittsburgh that weren't following the draft would have noticed that "Hey, we drafted some Russian kid. How was his numbers?" Looked them up on line, and probably ended up swearing at the screen for 10 minutes thinking his GM was a moron.
Now what about this guy? Another Russian:
55GP 23G 27A 50PTS
He busted. His name was Alexander Nikulin. A bit unfair, and a bit of an extreme example as he was drafted in the 4th round, but out of the Junior ranks in Russia - not the pros. However, the point still stands that stats and PPG comparisons really can fail, especially when comparing prospects in a pro league.
People are 'underwhelmed' by Puljujarvi's numbers as compared to Laine's numbers, but they don't see that Puljujarvi's team is way deeper with more players that are better 'now', and he doesn't get the ice time that Laine was afforded.
I don't follow Finnish Elite, so I can't comment on all of them. What does happen a lot is that just like the NHL, prospects are kept down and not as trusted. However, if they luck out and there is an injury that elevates them to a better line, and the end up showing well, their coach can keep them there. Suddenly what was a mediocre season has turned into a really good one in terms of PPG.
Most of these players had flaws. As noted, Granlund had size + poorer skating. That is almost a death sentence in the NHL, but due to his high IQ, he has been having a decent career at least.
We know Barkov is a complete stud in so many ways - but it is interesting anyways. Barkov's team was less talented. Only 4 guys on his team had double-digit goals, whereas Granlund's had 8 guys on it. It was probably easier for Barkov to get the ice-time as his skill (plus size) was probably already better than a lot of his teammates.
Teravainen played on Jokerit in his draft eligible season. Jokerit is a powerhouse. Just making the team as a 17 year old is fairly impressive. Terevainen was .45ppg, but was the 14th highest scorer on the team. He was highly regarded, but he slipped a little in the draft due to his size issues as well as people didn't think he would translate to a center at all, and though his skill-set overall is really good, it isn't good enough to compensate - though it is still early to say for sure how he will turn out.
Puljujarvi is ranked so high because - like Malkin and Ovechkin - his skills are so translatable. He is such a complete player in every facet of the game. He has elite size and speed, his shot is very good too, his vision - though not elite - is very high, and he already plays a complete game. He also has other intangibles like a non-stop motor and is considered to be a very solid character all around. His point production started off slower because it took him more time to 'earn' the ice time he is given, but it is still not top-line time.
You really have to see the players play in order to appreciate them as prospects. We are all guilty of stat-watching - especially for players that are difficult to actually see play due to them being in a different country. That is why I have learned to keep an open mind about anyone the Flames draft these days.
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The more I see Brown, the more I love him. He is everything that I think the Flames are looking for in their top 6. He is going to be a monster along the boards. He looks it already on his highlight reels, and one can argue the point that "in the NHL, he will be battling way bigger guys". Just keep in mind this kid is still rather skinny. I bet he plays at 240 when he is filled out, and that still isn't 'beefy' - Ovechkin is 6'3" and plays at 240.
I am starting to really see how good of a passer he is. I still think his shooting is so underrated - I like his shot. He gets if off pretty quickly. I would actually be really happy right now if the Flames get him at the draft. He really cold be an absolute monster for the Flames in time.
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Having Kylington, Andersson, and Hickey in the system in addition to Brodie and Hamilton makes Chychrun excessive within our system.
.
I don't really buy the logic of passing up arguably the best dman in his draft class just because we have a few other solid prospects drafted after the first round. Adding top players is never excessive.
Yeah that Brown video from the U18s really shows why he should be in consideration for a top 8 pick. That combination of puck protection, passing, skating, stickhandling and all in a 6'6 frame. The sky is the limit for that kid.
Really good highlight package from big white there. I'd take Brown over Nylander no question. Would not surprise me at all if Brown was top 8 for the Flames. I'd rather have
Bennett-Brown-x
than
x-Bennett-Nylander
Really impressed by those highlights. You can see why he rocketed up the charts with that skill, skating, size combo.
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I am still blown away that peopl would trade Bennett for Puljujarvi. Bennett is being under rated in this thread.
Bennett was drafted 4th overall. If the draft were held again today he'd be taken around 4th-5th. So he's being valued by some as a 4th-5th overall asset with 1.5 years of development under his belt. Not sure why you think that's under-rated.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Brown is a no brainer if he's still available at 6. You can see why he gets Button all hot and bothered. Teams won't be able to stop a guy like that when he's fully filled out. Too many weapons in the arsenal to go along with his size. We will get a stud at 6 no question.
Having Kylington, Andersson, and Hickey in the system in addition to Brodie and Hamilton makes Chychrun excessive within our system.
Although, it would be funny if Oilers traded down hoping that the Flames take a forward, only for us to take Chychrun from them.
Strange thinking here. We have so many blue chip defensive prospects... that we don't need another one?
None of Kylington, Andersson, or Hickey have accomplished a single thing for the Flames, nor are they a guarantee to do so. Odds would actually suggest that 2 of them are outright busts.
If the Flames feel Chychrun is the BPA, then they draft Chychrun, regardless of what's currently in our system.
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Yeah that Brown video from the U18s really shows why he should be in consideration for a top 8 pick. That combination of puck protection, passing, skating, stickhandling and all in a 6'6 frame. The sky is the limit for that kid.
Really good highlight package from big white there. I'd take Brown over Nylander no question. Would not surprise me at all if Brown was top 8 for the Flames. I'd rather have
Bennett-Brown-x
than
x-Bennett-Nylander
Really impressed by those highlights. You can see why he rocketed up the charts with that skill, skating, size combo.
how does Brown compare to other large centers who folks have hoped to project to be the next "joe thornton" like center... Let's say Colborne at the same age?
Strange thinking here. We have so many blue chip defensive prospects... that we don't need another one?
None of Kylington, Andersson, or Hickey have accomplished a single thing for the Flames, nor are they a guarantee to do so. Odds would actually suggest that 2 of them are outright busts.
If the Flames feel Chychrun is the BPA, then they draft Chychrun, regardless of what's currently in our system.
Well the thinking is probably that we don't have nearly the same high level prospect with our forwards. And that we should look at that after trading our first and two seconds for Hamilton and then using the next two picks on defense last year
I keep coming back to Chychrun. If the top five forwards are gone I say we take him. Having a stable of high quality defenseman cannot be overlooked.
I will lose my youknowwhat if the Flames draft Chychrun. You can't teach hockey IQ and smarts and he simply doesn't have it. I am hoping the Oilers draft him. THN draft preview came yesterday and they have Chychrun 3rd out of the big 3 D men.
Here's the Draft Analyst on his opinion of Juolevi vs Chychrun in a thread on HF about them
"Juolevi has had brutal games. He's held to a different standard by the media. Don't know why. But it might boil down to one guy being a safe pick and the other guy being a risk, but anyone who's watched Chychrun all season knows he's capable of playing a safe/smart game. It's such BS. Chychrun was knocked for his offense in the first half. So what does he do? His production explodes. What do they do? Call him risky and a low IQ.
To me, Chychrun IS the best defenseman because he can do either or. He can play a shutdown role or carry the offense on his back. Juolevi does neither. He's never been asked to. He's a vanilla prospect who does a lot of things well, but when did Hunter ever ask Juolevi to change the momentum of a game or season? Chychrun has.
To me, it's inconceivable how analysts have soured on him. They either watched him play once or twice or are just using the TPG/U18 as the end-all, be-all. It's one thing to say Chychrun dropped because of other forwards. Perfectly understandable. To say Chychrun has been passed by other dmen in his draft class is straight up bananas."
If the Flames scouts feel the same way then I think Chychrun would be the other player in our top 6.
Really? We are going to take some unknown yahoo of HF boards opinion as gospel? Where are these brutal games Juolevi has had? For the Knights? Nope, I am a Knights season ticket holder and follow them as much as the Flames, never saw that. At the WJC? He was dominant in that tournament, a tournament Chychrun didn't even make the cut for. The OHL playoffs? He has 14 points in in 17 games and is a +15. To me it isn't even close between the two.
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I wonder how much Toronto would be willing to give up to take Nylander at #6.
I would be pretty intrigued if their 2017 1st + prospect was offered. There's a good chance Toronto repeats a bottom finish, and this could be a good lottery pick.
Of course, if Tkachuk or Dubois are still available the deal is off. They have too much value to take a risk. But everything else I could part with at the chance of a high draft the next year.
Think about how Johnny 1.0 would have done in the NHL at 19.
Bennett is going be a better player.
I'm not sure Bennett will be better than Gaudreau, but I do think people are forgetting the age difference between those players, and I'm really high on Bennett.
He does some stuff down low that just don't make sense given his age. His shot is great but he always seems to miss high. He played with next to nobody once they moved him to center.
I think the kid is going to be a monster for this team, moving past Monahan and being the pulse offensively and physically for a long time.
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I wonder how much Toronto would be willing to give up to take Nylander at #6.
I would be pretty intrigued if their 2017 1st + prospect was offered. There's a good chance Toronto repeats a bottom finish, and this could be a good lottery pick.
I wouldn't do it.
I wouldn't trade it to Toronto for anything short of Marner (which they wouldn't do). You gotta remember Toronto tanked this year... remove the first round pick and you remove the incentive to tank. You'd be making a bet that the Leafs next year +Marner, +healthy JVR (maybe), +Nylander, +Matthews, + any free agents they sign (Stamkos?) will be similarly as bad and that whoever you're able to draft next year will has good as whoever you can draft this year +1 year of experience.
I wonder how much Toronto would be willing to give up to take Nylander at #6.
I would be pretty intrigued if their 2017 1st + prospect was offered. There's a good chance Toronto repeats a bottom finish, and this could be a good lottery pick.
Of course, if Tkachuk or Dubois are still available the deal is off. They have too much value to take a risk. But everything else I could part with at the chance of a high draft the next year.
I would definitely look at that kind of deal, as well as moving down. When the Leafs trade away their 1st, the pick inevitably turns into a superstar (we hope Hamilton will too).
He does some stuff down low that just don't make sense given his age. His shot is great but he always seems to miss high. He played with next to nobody once they moved him to center.
Yeah, we really need to get a legit winger to put on Bennett's line. Stretch out the depth chart and make it hard on the opposing coaches.
