The "Panama Papers" - massive leak from an offshore tax law firm

[Locke]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Locke has gone full partisan hack.

Haha! I cant be a partisan hack who is so upset that 'my guy or party' didnt get elected because I didnt have 'a guy or party.'

And I find this hilarious for someone to say to me, a literally card-carrying member of the Liberal party.

I dont care about or believe in parties or people I believe in ideas and right now I think there are toddlers having better ideas than Justin.

Do you want me to call you names now?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Call me whatever you wish, just don't call me late for dinner.

Dunno, I just don't see your flippant posts any different then physnet's, just on the other side. Which is a shame because I like and respect you.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by blankall

It's an incredibly complicated system involving legislature from both countries and treaties.

How much you pay is very much dependent on the relationship between the two parties. Depending on the jurisdiction tax obligations can be based on residency, citizenship, location of income earned, etc... It's then up to a tax treaty to decide who you pay the money to.

I completely understand that. It's something I have to get professionals to look at alll the time, but that's my point. People think that it's all about "loop holes" but it's so much more complicated than that.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

I completely understand that. It's something I have to get professionals to look at alll the time, but that's my point. People think that it's all about "loop holes" but it's so much more complicated than that.

Well...it's actually pretty simple, it's a "write off":

[Locke]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Call me whatever you wish, just don't call me late for dinner.

Dunno, I just don't see your flippant posts any different then physnet's, just on the other side. Which is a shame because I like and respect you.

Fair enough.

On another note, it looks like Neymar, Messi and Suarez are also implicated in this. Makes you wonder if they share an accountant.

[FlameOn]

Over 1000 US companies now linked to the Panama papers. Most of these are based out of Wyoming and Nevada.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2...nies/82670334/

[FlameOn]

ICIJ is set to release a second dump of data apparently bigger than the first on May 9th
http://www.businessinsider.com/panam...-in-may-2016-4

[RockLicker]

https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/

Apparently the new data is in there. Haven't poked around yet, but be looking around. Although this is certainly a lesser immediate concern than people losing everything up in Ft McMurray, the long term implications of tax avoidance/evasion is going to be huge for our society IMO.

Apologies in advance for a long winded, rambling, likely pointless post.

I’d say I tend to lean somewhat to the right on most positions regarding taxation. I do believe that overtaxation beyond what it needed to sustain the society we live in is essentially theft backed up with the threat of violence, and that there is a strong bureaucracy in our society that exists for little reason but to gorge on “other people’s money”. Overtaxation is in my opinion destructive to our economy, and I believe that money is generally better left in people’s wallets rather than collected and spent for them.

That said, we are extremely fortunate to live in the society we have, and it takes capital to sustain our society and to ensure that all citizens are given a fair shake at success and a decent life. IMO tax evasion/avoidance by the extremely wealthy is one of the largest “social justice” issues our society faces. It will continue to get worse. These individuals have benefited and thrived largely because of the economic framework and stability our society provides. To acquire large wealth under that framework, and then to either illegally evade, or rewrite tax law to “legally” avoid paying that sustaining capital back into our society seems like a recipe for failure over the long run.

There are all sorts of discussions of how automation in the mid-term future will make many jobs obsolete, rendering huge swaths of our population permanently unemployable and further concentrating wealth in the hands of a few. The big proposed solution is some sort of universal income. While I haven’t quite figured out where I stand on that idea, it’s clear to me that it is a non starter unless we as a society find a way to ensure the wealthy contribute their share to the maintenance of that society that has served them so well. Us middle class salaried suckers will shoulder an ever growing burden for the upkeep of our society.

Many assumed that Trump was riding a wave of popularity with racists and vapid idiots, and sure, there is a pretty nasty undercurrent to his campaign, but much of what he’s tapped into is a growing belief that the blue collar and middle class are being cheated out of the society and opportunity that their parents thrived under.

[Thor]

In Iceland since we are such a tiny nation of only 330,000 people the % of people/companies in these papers has shocked an already skeptical nation. We are in fact WAY higher than other countries and this has been big news about Iceland in the EU, the level of corruption and tax evasion here is rampant.

This while our healthcare system is struggling, and the anger here is growing, even after the prime minister was forced to step down, now we see why the middle class burden tax wise is not enough because so many that can do hide their money elsewhere and IF they all did what the rest of us do and paid their taxes, then we would have a much better social system and could even look at lowering taxes for the middle class.

If such a significant amount of money is not being collected in taxes by the wealthy here in Iceland it has a significant impact on our society.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by RockLicker

https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/

Apparently the new data is in there. Haven't poked around yet, but be looking around. Although this is certainly a lesser immediate concern than people losing everything up in Ft McMurray, the long term implications of tax avoidance/evasion is going to be huge for our society IMO.

Apologies in advance for a long winded, rambling, likely pointless post.

I’d say I tend to lean somewhat to the right on most positions regarding taxation. I do believe that overtaxation beyond what it needed to sustain the society we live in is essentially theft backed up with the threat of violence, and that there is a strong bureaucracy in our society that exists for little reason but to gorge on “other people’s money”. Overtaxation is in my opinion destructive to our economy, and I believe that money is generally better left in people’s wallets rather than collected and spent for them.

That said, we are extremely fortunate to live in the society we have, and it takes capital to sustain our society and to ensure that all citizens are given a fair shake at success and a decent life. IMO tax evasion/avoidance by the extremely wealthy is one of the largest “social justice” issues our society faces. It will continue to get worse. These individuals have benefited and thrived largely because of the economic framework and stability our society provides. To acquire large wealth under that framework, and then to either illegally evade, or rewrite tax law to “legally” avoid paying that sustaining capital back into our society seems like a recipe for failure over the long run.

There are all sorts of discussions of how automation in the mid-term future will make many jobs obsolete, rendering huge swaths of our population permanently unemployable and further concentrating wealth in the hands of a few. The big proposed solution is some sort of universal income. While I haven’t quite figured out where I stand on that idea, it’s clear to me that it is a non starter unless we as a society find a way to ensure the wealthy contribute their share to the maintenance of that society that has served them so well. Us middle class salaried suckers will shoulder an ever growing burden for the upkeep of our society.

Many assumed that Trump was riding a wave of popularity with racists and vapid idiots, and sure, there is a pretty nasty undercurrent to his campaign, but much of what he’s tapped into is a growing belief that the blue collar and middle class are being cheated out of the society and opportunity that their parents thrived under.

Taxes are high and public services are terrible.

If I had the money I would likely explore legal tax avoidance options too. Tax evasion though? Probably not.

[Enoch Root]

Article discussing some Cdn connections.

http://www.wealthprofessional.ca/new...ed-207064.aspx

Mostly about a BC lawyer named Fred Sharp and his firm. Had to link due to the world-class non-denial denial that he posted, regarding allegations of the connection, secrecy, etc...:

“I cannot speak accurately to your various queries as you have provided no evidence regarding events that may or may not have occurred 20 years ago.”

Note: it is quite possible that I do not have the rights/authority to link this article - if not, oops.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Taxes are high and public services are terrible.

If I had the money I would likely explore legal tax avoidance options too. Tax evasion though? Probably not.

Taxes are historically low.

[RockLicker]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Taxes are high and public services are terrible.

If I had the money I would likely explore legal tax avoidance options too. Tax evasion though? Probably not.

That's sort of my point though. We don't have access to the same sorts of "tax strategies" as many of those I was talking about, so we get stuck often paying higher tax rates than the fabulously wealthy.

There are a lot of things wrong with Greece that have contributed to the state of their economy, but I'd suggest tax evasion across the board being more or less a national sport there has definitely added gas to that dumpster fire.

[troutman]

I'm not being defensive! You're the one who's being defensive! Why is always the other person who's being defensive? Have you ever asked yourself that? Why don't you ask yourself that?

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Taxes are historically low.

"Taxes are high" is meant as a personal opinion.

I don't care if taxes were higher years ago, I still think they are high.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Taxes are historically low.

And Public Service costs are historically high.

This isnt the Dirty 30s anymore, we cant just snag the nearest Roosevelt, jack taxes through the roof and then get ourselves a New Deal.

Every nation that has tried heavily taxing the wealthy has eventually had to repeal it because it doesnt work. Look at Iceland. Doesnt anyone ever wonder why theres so many people evading their taxes in Iceland? Because Iceland's taxes are very, very high so they found a way around it.

You cant gouge the rich. Taxes and Public Services are not a 'Smash and Grab' its a long-game.

You have to grow a tax base, not just raise taxes on the wealthy. And you have to maintain accountability on the public sector to get value for money and not just operate on the premise that theres always more money.

Because if you try and push the people in those high tax brackets too far they'll take their ball and go home, because they can and the fact is that in a Global Society you have to do your best to compete with those jurisdictions or you'll lose large taxpayers to them and wind up with nothing.

And the fact that taxes are at a historical low but at the highest rate you would wind up giving the Government half of your money and it still 'isnt enough' seems a pretty clear indication as the where the real problem lies.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by Locke

And the fact that taxes are at a historical low but at the highest rate you would wind up giving the Government half of your money and it still 'isnt enough' seems a pretty clear indication as the where the real problem lies.

A diminishing middle class?

[indes]

A horribly inefficient, bloated, money devouring system.

Trudeau spent 4.3b dollars abroad in his first 100 days and didn't even bat an eye.

Not that he personally is the whole problem. I'm not sure why I'm paying taxes
when the benefit is not even to our society, but I am sure I wouldn't if I didn't have to.

I think most people don't mind paying taxes but when the money just vanishes (either overseas or into a cluster#### of public services)
it's difficult to be commited.

Is there anyone who thinks we get good value on the dollar once it's in the governments hands?

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Thor

In Iceland since we are such a tiny nation

Drink!

[RockLicker]

Totally agree that in the modern world/economy the whole "soak the rich" thing espoused by folks that think we can simply raise marginal tax rates is a joke.

That said, I still believe that in a situation where you have high public spending, and the ability of high wealth individuals to use tax strategies to pay effective rates well below middle income salary earners, the story eventually ends badly, particularly for the middle class.

I'm not necessarily worried about what's fair, but what is sustainable. If the answer to "rich people are avoiding taxes" is "well you should avoid them too" then we have Greece to show us where that goes.