The 2016 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

[TheAlpineOracle]

This bullpen needs to be addressed now before Boston and Baltimore get too far ahead. Bet the Jays regret not even making an attempt to resign Mark Lowe.

[Skaloper]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

This bullpen needs to be addressed now before Boston and Baltimore get too far ahead. Bet the Jays regret not even making an attempt to resign Mark Lowe.

Storen (Sanchez's replacement) and Cecil both performing well below expectations and with no one else stepping up it has really cost the Jays a few games early on. I think one of them will turn it around but they better do it soon.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Skaloper

Storen (Sanchez's replacement) and Cecil both performing well below expectations and with no one else stepping up it has really cost the Jays a few games early on. I think one of them will turn it around but they better do it soon.

That's the story of this whole team, save for our starting pitching: "As soon as they find their game......".

[puffnstuff]

I would be ok if the flight to SF left without Storen on it.

[bluejays]

I've said this a hundred times on here. Signing risky players may look brilliant when one pans out but when they likely don't, you can't use that as an excuse. The Jays have taken risks with these types of signings and it's biting them every now and then. The GM has to take the blame. So many GM's try and take the flyer to outsmart their counterparts, but more often than not they don't come out on top.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by fleury

I've said this a hundred times on here. Signing risky players may look brilliant when one pans out but when they likely don't, you can't use that as an excuse. The Jays have taken risks with these types of signings and it's biting them every now and then. The GM has to take the blame. So many GM's try and take the flyer to outsmart their counterparts, but more often than not they don't come out on top.

Yep, budget restraints absolutely factor into this season.

[nik-]

How much of this is a subconscious (or conscious) dip in the "give a damn" meter because of how apparent Rogers made it this winter that they intended to go cheap?

Best season in 20 years, squad ace not even offered a contract going into free agency, contract dispute with Donaldson. Not exactly the type of ownership that inspires loyalty.

[mrkajz44]

Someone said that they've lost their swagger ever since Price left, and I sort of agree with that. I agree with the decision to let Price go at that price (heh), but then it looks like you are not trying to field the best team. Damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of thing.

The use of this bullpen is maddening though. Storen is obviously battling, so why does Gibbons continue to run him out. Sure, the other arms in the pen are less proven and might crack under the pressure, but Storen is doing that anyway. Floyd was great in spring training, and I know his supposed to be more of a long man, but why not trot him out there instead? The bullpen is constantly evolving anyway - just makes no sense to me.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by fleury

I've said this a hundred times on here. Signing risky players may look brilliant when one pans out but when they likely don't, you can't use that as an excuse. The Jays have taken risks with these types of signings and it's biting them every now and then. The GM has to take the blame. So many GM's try and take the flyer to outsmart their counterparts, but more often than not they don't come out on top.

The Jays take chances because they have to because of the pathetic owernship that funnels the profits out of the team. What did they average this weekend? 43K a game, yet they can't afford to make some acquisitions?

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Someone said that they've lost their swagger ever since Price left, and I sort of agree with that. I agree with the decision to let Price go at that price (heh), but then it looks like you are not trying to field the best team. Damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of thing.

The use of this bullpen is maddening though. Storen is obviously battling, so why does Gibbons continue to run him out. Sure, the other arms in the pen are less proven and might crack under the pressure, but Storen is doing that anyway. Floyd was great in spring training, and I know his supposed to be more of a long man, but why not trot him out there instead? The bullpen is constantly evolving anyway - just makes no sense to me.

I said that, and I 100% feel that is the case. People can throw whatever stat out there they want, but the fact of the matter is this team was a mediocre .500 team until they acquired David Price and now they are a mediocre .500 since they watched him leave. Notice who is on top of the AL East.


The acquisition of David Price told the Jays players they meant business, they were trying to win, and were willing to pay the cost to do so. Every player around the league took notice when they acquired him. Letting him walk without even making an offer, and AA taking his ball and going home (pretty obvious it's because he wasn't going to be given the resources necessary to make some moves) set this franchise right back to where it was. A team that does enough to not finish last, but not enough to win. And with that, went the Jays swagger. We are right back to being a purgatory for baseball players that want to win.

I'm not even saying they needed to resign Price, but they needed to make an effort, and if they determined the term was too much, they needed to go out there and get another big name and fill some holes. They didn't do a damn thing other than reshuffle some chairs and plug one hole at the expense of another.

Not resigning at least one of Edwin or Bautista prior to the start of the regular season also sent a terrible message. It's pretty obvious to everyone that they have no intention of bringing either of these guys back. These guys aren't fully engaged. They are just putting their time until they move on. They didn't retain a single piece that they acquired for last year's run outside of Tulo (Price, Rever, Lowe, Hawkins, etc.), and didn't replace a single one of them. What kind of message does that send?

[GirlySports]

Pompey was supposed to replace Revere. What happened to him?

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Pompey was supposed to replace Revere. What happened to him?

They said his fielding wasn't up to snuff early in spring training for the major league and decided early he'd be going back to AAA. He's currently having an absolutely terrible start to his season in Buffalo.

That's the problem though. How can a team who should be contending for a World Series Title go into the season with the game plan of starting an unproven rookie in LF? Saunders has been half decent this year, but that's just by chance. You don't go into a season where you are supposed to be contending with a plan of having a rookie in LF and no lead off options. It's insanity. You go out there and sign a proven commodity to a short term deal until Pompey is ready.

Not saying LF is the problem this year (Because it isn't), but the approach is why this team will never be a yearly powerhouse.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

This bullpen needs to be addressed now before Boston and Baltimore get too far ahead. Bet the Jays regret not even making an attempt to resign Mark Lowe.

Mark Lowe is killing it this year... erm, being killed.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Pompey was supposed to replace Revere. What happened to him?

Jay Bruce was supposed to replace Revere

[troutman]

Giants start the series with Peavy and Cain, so those two games are there for the taking. They have been awful.

http://www.sfgate.com/giants/article...ts-7385880.php

The answer to the logical question is no, the staff is not prepared to think about pulling either Peavy or Cain from the rotation.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Mark Lowe is killing it this year... erm, being killed.

He was off to a pretty good start. Looks like he had one tough series against the Rangers. He has a WIP of 1.14 which isn't too shabby.

[cross16]

The bullpen isn't a problem of lack of talent it's not meeting expectations. If Storen and Cecil are pitching like they should this teams has at least 4 more wins and are leading the division.

I would also argue that if the core of this team needed someone like Price to give them a shot in the arm then you have pretty terrible leadership in your core. Stroman is pitching, IMO, as good as Price did for this team so if you are looking for the shot in the arm they've already got it. I don't really undertstand the logic of going out to get a big name when you've got internal options who are out performing any big name they could have acquired. Why is the combo of adding Stroman/Sanchez to the rotation not even of a shot in the arm to show guys like Bautista/EE/Donaldson they mean business?

I think we need to look a lot more closely at who Bautistia and EE are if they are waiting for the organization to show some more support. The auxiliary pieces are there, up to them to get the job done.

[Roof-Daddy]

Yeah, Storen and Cecil have really let the team down.

Should be 19-14 instead of 16-17 at the very least.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I said that, and I 100% feel that is the case. People can throw whatever stat out there they want, but the fact of the matter is this team was a mediocre .500 team until they acquired David Price and now they are a mediocre .500 since they watched him leave. Notice who is on top of the AL East.


The acquisition of David Price told the Jays players they meant business, they were trying to win, and were willing to pay the cost to do so. Every player around the league took notice when they acquired him. Letting him walk without even making an offer, and AA taking his ball and going home (pretty obvious it's because he wasn't going to be given the resources necessary to make some moves) set this franchise right back to where it was. A team that does enough to not finish last, but not enough to win. And with that, went the Jays swagger. We are right back to being a purgatory for baseball players that want to win.

I'm not even saying they needed to resign Price, but they needed to make an effort, and if they determined the term was too much, they needed to go out there and get another big name and fill some holes. They didn't do a damn thing other than reshuffle some chairs and plug one hole at the expense of another.

Not resigning at least one of Edwin or Bautista prior to the start of the regular season also sent a terrible message. It's pretty obvious to everyone that they have no intention of bringing either of these guys back. These guys aren't fully engaged. They are just putting their time until they move on. They didn't retain a single piece that they acquired for last year's run outside of Tulo (Price, Rever, Lowe, Hawkins, etc.), and didn't replace a single one of them. What kind of message does that send?

So we think that not offering to sign Price, and not signing Bautista/Edwin prior to the year is the reason they're off to a slow start? I don't buy that at all. If players are in that fragile of a state of mind they're not playing in the MLB.

This team was .500 up until the deadline last year, and from all advanced stat metrics were greatly outperforming that record. When David Price was brought in, it helped solidify the rotation no doubt. He was monstrous down the stretch. But they also picked up Tulo, were having huge offensive seasons from a number of players, had a suddenly healthy Sanchez to inject into the 8th inning, picked up Lowe and Hawkins (2 other huge BP additions), and a resurgent Ben Revere.

So far the offense has fallen off a cliff, and the bullpen has been a nightmare. The latter of those is more worrisome at the moment, as I don't think we currently have the in-house options in the organization to fill some late inning roles. But if the offense is performing even close to what we saw last year, we're talking about a team that's 7-8 games over .500 and not 16-17.

I personally feel that any emotional well-being of this team being disrupted by Price leaving is the furthest thing from the problems the team is facing right now. The starting pitching has been fan-bloody-tastic, and for all intensive purposes Happ has greatly outperformed Price for pennies on the dollar. The bats will come, but Atkins may need to address the bullpen sooner than later to regain some of that late inning prowess from last year.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

So we think that not offering to sign Price, and not signing Bautista/Edwin prior to the year is the reason they're off to a slow start? I don't buy that at all. If players are in that fragile of a state of mind they're not playing in the MLB.

This team was .500 up until the deadline last year, and from all advanced stat metrics were greatly outperforming that record. When David Price was brought in, it helped solidify the rotation no doubt. He was monstrous down the stretch. But they also picked up Tulo, were having huge offensive seasons from a number of players, had a suddenly healthy Sanchez to inject into the 8th inning, picked up Lowe and Hawkins (2 other huge BP additions), and a resurgent Ben Revere.

So far the offense has fallen off a cliff, and the bullpen has been a nightmare. The latter of those is more worrisome at the moment, as I don't think we currently have the in-house options in the organization to fill some late inning roles. But if the offense is performing even close to what we saw last year, we're talking about a team that's 7-8 games over .500 and not 16-17.

I personally feel that any emotional well-being of this team being disrupted by Price leaving is the furthest thing from the problems the team is facing right now. The starting pitching has been fan-bloody-tastic, and for all intensive purposes Happ has greatly outperformed Price for pennies on the dollar. The bats will come, but Atkins may need to address the bullpen sooner than later to regain some of that late inning prowess from last year.

I'm starting to not buy the "It will come" stuff anymore. This is the same team it was for half of 2014, all of 2013, and all of 2012. The only anomaly in this team's performance was for half of July, August, and September of 2015. Those trades gave this team a new sense of energy (the energy contending teams have every year), that energy is now gone. You can put a stat on it, but it seems pretty evident in my opinion. You couldn't count the Jays out of any game last year. This year as soon as adversity presents itself, they fold like a cheap tent and you can even see it their eyes in the dugout when they pan over.

And it's not just the Price left, it's that these guys gave it their all, the fans came out and droves, and this has changed nothing as to the management of the team's approach. I would have a hard time playing for management like that and I think it would effect my performance on the field. It sure effects my performance at my job when I feel management doesn't have my back and are nickle and dime'ing me. How do you think Bautista and EE feel about giving the pinnacle of their careers to an organization that they know they will have to fight tooth and nail just to get a contract offer, let alone a respectable offer.