[News] With the 166th OA pick, Flames select C/LW Andrew Mangiapane

[LIP MAN]

Originally Posted by FireItUp

Same goes for Mangiapane.
My point is there's only so many spots for small guys on Burke type teams. I personally don't agree with this, as I'd rather have skill and/or a high compete level all down the lines no matter what the size the players are.

He was also quoted as saying he wants a "top 6, bottom 6" team. You see, the power bottom is actually generating the power by doing most of the work.

[FireItUp]

Originally Posted by LIP MAN

He was also quoted as saying he wants a "top 6, bottom 6" team. You see, the power bottom is actually generating the power by doing most of the work.

Who said that...you or Burke?.

[Vulcan]

You can have guys like Brad Marchand and Jordan Tootoo who are around 5'9 but solid and there is no problem. In fact they are the other teams problems. Mangiapane plays the role of the rat much like these two guys. If he works out, his size wouldn't be a problem on any team. We will need a team that backs him up though, not walk away like has been happening.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by FireItUp

Same goes for Mangiapane.
My point is there's only so many spots for small guys on Burke type teams. I personally don't agree with this, as I'd rather have skill and/or a high compete level all down the lines no matter what the size the players are.

It's still very mind-numbingly confusing to hear you talk about concern that Burke will somehow exclude or be biased against Mangiapane because of his size when Burke is the one who went out of his way to specifically bring him up and say "I think he makes it".

[Calgary4LIfe]

Burke and Treliving are not stupid either. They see a guy who is hard to play against - that is black and blue hockey.

Did Paul Byron fit into 'Black and Blue Hockey'? I bet if you were to ask Burke, he probably would have been ok with a Byron on the bottom 6 - he was difficult to play against, and surprisingly physical.

I still think that people are reading too much into the 'wanting to get bigger' and 'black and blue'. They are definitely going to favor big skilled guys over small skilled guys, but Burke and Treliving have both said that this team needs to get more skilled and faster in addition to getting bigger and more physical. Mangiapane fits.

Nylander and Keller fits as well - but you can bet that if the Flames view Brown or even Jost as fairly equally talented/upside/translatable/whatever - they pick the bigger guys. Flames will not pass on skill for the sake of size - they will just keep trying to continually find guys who have size, skill and speed.

I do think that part of the perceived issues with Burke talking about 'Black and Blue" or 'Truculence' is that people will automatically think "He drafted Tyler Biggs so early". Yep, huge mistake there - but loads of teams ended up reaching for other big AND small players. Burke preached black and blue, but he then spent a lot of assets in acquiring Kessel - hardly a guy that fits.

I also think that people think that "Black and Blue" means the Flames will be less talented and a lower scoring team. I don't think so.

St. Louis was a fairly high scoring team a few seasons ago - led the league in +/- for sure that season (or perhaps even a couple of seasons). People will point at the Kings and argue that they are a low scoring team because they are a big black and blue team. Same fingers pointing at Anaheim.

Lots of these teams were pretty high-scoring. They just decided to play a more structure defensive game. It isn't anything to do with black and blue hockey.

Look at the bottom of the list for teams' GF. Most of those teams are rebuilding teams, and that isn't exactly fair, but none are 'black and blue' teams. Keep crawling up - first real black and blue team is Winnipeg - they had a disappointing season, but fair enough. They were 21st in scoring.

Next is Anaheim at 18th - however, they had that atrocious start to the season where they couldn't buy a goal. Amazing that they finished at 18th... but excuses are excuses - they finished at 'average' territory.

St. Louis and LA are next at 15th and 14th respectfully. However, the highly skilled, fast and high output offensive juggernaut Tampa Bay Lightning only put up 2 more goals than LA, and 3 more goals than St. Louis.

Dallas is ranked first, Washington second. Who are their best offensive players? Benn and Ovechkin.

Calgary is simply going to place a higher value on obtaining larger players with the capability of playing a more physical game, but it won't be at the cost of becoming worse on the ice. That would be dumb. Burke and Treliving are not dumb.

[FireItUp]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I do think that part of the perceived issues with Burke talking about 'Black and Blue" or 'Truculence' is that people will automatically think "He drafted Tyler Biggs so early". Yep, huge mistake there - but loads of teams ended up reaching for other big AND small players. Burke preached black and blue, but he then spent a lot of assets in acquiring Kessel - hardly a guy that fits.

I also think that people think that "Black and Blue" means the Flames will be less talented and a lower scoring team. I don't think so.

I can agree with that, maybe I'm looking too deep into the "Black & Blue" and "Truculence" talk thinking it means big bodies with no skill or less skill.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by FireItUp

Was there three or more shorter players on any one of those teams? Right now we've got two with Gaudreau and Shinkaruk, adding Mangiapane would make it three.

Shinkaruk is listed at 5'10 but he looks relatively stocky and plays a physical game. Is his height severely exaggerated height? I haven't seen him play a huge amount of times, but he in no way looked smaller than other player on the ice from what I've seen. My understanding when the trade went down was that he was brought in as he added more tenacity and physical play than Granlund had.

I'd be far more concerned about our tallier lankier guys than a player like Shinkaruk.

[Da_Chief]

Shinkaruk is a wildcard for me next year. I think him and Bennett are about the same height. Reading his post-season interview he really wants to be with the Flames next year. If he puts on 10 lbs or so this summer him and Bennett can be quite the dual. He has speed and skill theres no denying that.

I'd actually like to see the new coach split Monahan and Gaudreau in the training camp and see how these pairs play together.

Gaudreau-Bennett
Shinkaruk-Monahan

[polak]

Add Nylander (or better yet, Dubois) to that and this whole contender thing might actually be a reality in a year or two.

[JJ1532]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Shinkaruk is a wildcard for me next year. I think him and Bennett are about the same height. Reading his post-season interview he really wants to be with the Flames next year. If he puts on 10 lbs or so this summer him and Bennett can be quite the dual. He has speed and skill theres no denying that.

I'd actually like to see the new coach split Monahan and Gaudreau in the training camp and see how these pairs play together.

Gaudreau-Bennett
Shinkaruk-Monahan

Shinkaruk is listed on the Flames website as 5.10 and 181. Bennett is 6.1 and 186. So there is a fair bit of height difference between them. I think both of them need to get bigger. Don't want Bennett to lose much of his speed and agility, but I think he'll benefit from getting a bit stronger.

[SofaProfessor]

Originally Posted by LIP MAN

He was also quoted as saying he wants a "top 6, bottom 6" team. You see, the power bottom is actually generating the power by doing most of the work.

I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

[Par]

People are reading too much in height, Joe Sakic was 5.11 and he was a darn good player and he was in the clutch and grab era, same with Stevie Y.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

You can have guys like Brad Marchand and Jordan Tootoo who are around 5'9 but solid and there is no problem. In fact they are the other teams problems. Mangiapane plays the role of the rat much like these two guys. If he works out, his size wouldn't be a problem on any team. We will need a team that backs him up though, not walk away like has been happening.

I love him already, that's what we need, a player to get under the skin of the opponents. With him and Hathaway in the lineup, they'll drive other teams up the wall and throw the other teams off. The other teams will be so focused on "getting" them and they will draw so many penalty. But then, the Flames' pp has to step up.

[The Yen Man]

I'd be ecstatic if he turns into anything like Gallagher.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by LIP MAN

He was also quoted as saying he wants a "top 6, bottom 6" team. You see, the power bottom is actually generating the power by doing most of the work.

Brian Burke. Power Bottom.
I need to bleach my brain...thanks for that

[Ashasx]

Mangiapane's production relative to the rest of the AHL for the 2017/2018 season is really impressive:

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Mangiapane's production relative to the rest of the AHL for the 2017/2018 season is really impressive:

Zombie thread, but great stats. It's a shame he'll be hard pressed to find some good top 9 wing time. He deserves it

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Zombie thread, but great stats. It's a shame he'll be hard pressed to find some good top 9 wing time. He deserves it

If Bennett gets off to another slow start there may be a spot open yet.

[RichKlit]

In what way does he deserve it? He’s still an AHLer to me until he forces his way into a full time gig. So far imo he Derserves top 6 in the AHL.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by RichKlit

In what way does he deserve it?

Well he's playing as well in the AHL as I can remember a Flames' prospect playing in recent memory. His development has been extremely consistent year over year. It seems like this is a player I would want the Flames to take advantage of. Cheap, cost controlled, but massive upside potential for the NHL when we'll need the cap space over the next couple years.