2015-16 Raptors and General NBA Thread

[nik-]

I think the thing to hope for is that this series win finally happening eliminates that mental hurdle in the team's mind that seemed to exist.

Who knows what happens next series. It's a new world once you've proven you can win a series.

[Senator Clay Davis]

The only real criticisms I still have of Casey are his in game player management and how there isn't enough offense ran through JV like there should be. But even then I can't imagine he's telling DeMar and Lowry to force up as many bad shots as they can. Might not be a top 10 coach but he's probably not any lower than 15 either.

[Drake]

Golden State in 5
San Antonio in 5

Cleveland in 4
Miami in 5

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by kmart

I don't think it's fair to call the Raptors stars "next to no basketball IQ." Hate him or love him DeRozan does score 30 and take the burden of scoring off of other players. His ball IQ is lower, as a simple pass will make things a lot easier for himself. He was also tasked with the problem of providing scoring for his team while taking on a top notch defensive player in Paul George. 10-32 is awful, its bad, but who are you really going to have score the ball? Don't tell it's Valancuinas as well, he struggled in post up situations with Mahimi. Do I think DeRozans worth a max? No, but I believe he did what he needed to do to get the Raptors a win.

Now Lowry, doesn't take many bad shots, today he hardly took any. There is also the problem with his elbow, and thats likely one of the reasons his shot was simply not falling. Some of the shots he took in this series a healthy regular season Kyle Lowry would've made and yes it would've been a shorter series if that was the case.

As for the offence at the end of the game, for those of us who've been watching Raptors basketball, thats just who they are. They have been for the most part a isolation heavy team. They love putting the ball in Lowry and Derozan's hands at the end of the game taking time off the clock and go into full isolation. Credit the Pacers for knowing the Raptors and extending their defence beyond the three point line forcing them to force hard shots at the end of shot clock situations.

As for Miami, DeRozan can finally take a breather no more PG in his face. Lowry will need his elbow to improve, otherwise I don't think the Raptors can win.

Heat win in 6.

I think it's very fair to question their basketball IQ. You can live with the jacking up of low percentage shots. These guys are athletes and alpha-males with big egos. They think they can make these shots and you never want to take their confidence away. That said, it's another thing to be taking shots with 20 seconds left on the shot clock with a ten point lead in a game in the final 3 minutes. That is just plain stupidity. The Raptors should have been able to win that game no problem even if they never made another basket. Use the clock, force Indiana to foul to stop it and get to the line.

With Lowry, it wasn't the shots took, it was the ones he didn't take. Multiple times he drove to the basket and gave up a layup or a trip to the foul line only to kick it out for a ridiculously unnecessary 3 pointer. All these misses allowed Indiana to crawl back into a game multiple times that they had no business being in.

This is not a new issue though. This team simply does not know how to win or bury a team when they have the lead. I've always blamed Casey, but I'm really starting to wonder if there's anything he can do with guys like Lowry and Derozan. The Raptors had a great record this year, but the amount of times they let teams back in the game is absolutely staggering.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Well, good to see the Raptors aren't the only team who can blow big leads... ATL has tied CLE after being down 18 in the 2nd half.

[Drake]

@bruce_arthur:
Holy, Game 7 of Raptors-Pacers got 1.53M viewers, a record in this country. Welcome to Canadian prime time, basketball.

[The Big Chill]

I just turned on sports centre part way through a little preview for the Raps-Heat series, and they were talking about how Powell will fare guarding Wade. Are the Raps planning on starting Powell to match up small ball with the Heat?

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

I just turned on sports centre part way through a little preview for the Raps-Heat series, and they were talking about how Powell will fare guarding Wade. Are the Raps planning on starting Powell to match up small ball with the Heat?

IF, and it's a really really big IF Casey has the brains and cajones to take DD's time on the court down it could be reality. They simply can't have Wade just blowing by DD everytime. Plus with limited shots DD can't pooch the game like he almost did game seven. I was praying that he would be left on the bench. They are better in the clinch without him on the floor.

They should use DD as a sixth man. Really that's all he is qualified to do. Come in off the bench and score. He does nothing at all other than that. Not a single thing. Has no BBIQ. Whines to the refs when he gets no calls. Is a defensive liability. Can't pass or won't. Really he is just a little more consistent Ross at least in the regular season.

Powell on the other hand has been awesome. Great defense and effective on offense. They are going to win they need him on the floor more often. BB is going to have to play a lot as well to contain Whiteside. No way they are winning the series offensively / they are going to have to beat them with defense and timely offense.

[The Big Chill]

I'm guessing it would be Patterson who moves to the bench, not DD.

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

I'm guessing it would be Patterson who moves to the bench, not DD.

DD moving to the bench is what a good coach on a contender would do. It's just wishful thinking on my part. Of course he will start and chuck up shot after shot, play no defense, turn the ball over and be given the max at the end of the year.

This is the Raptors we are talking about. Logic is not involved in the decision making process.

[Regorium]

What an ending from OKC-SAS.

Blatant offensive foul not called. Gets the steal anyways, then the Spurs blow a 3 on 1.

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

DD moving to the bench is what a good coach on a contender would do. It's just wishful thinking on my part. Of course he will start and chuck up shot after shot, play no defense, turn the ball over and be given the max at the end of the year.

This is the Raptors we are talking about. Logic is not involved in the decision making process.

It is not logical to bench one of your best players in playoffs. DeRozan has plenty of warts, but this team needs him at his best in order to beat Miami.

I'd be all for looking to improve/change that position in the offseason, but with this current squad, the only way a deep run in playoffs comes about is if DD plays his best.

[Trojan97]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I think it's very fair to question their basketball IQ. You can live with the jacking up of low percentage shots. These guys are athletes and alpha-males with big egos. They think they can make these shots and you never want to take their confidence away. That said, it's another thing to be taking shots with 20 seconds left on the shot clock with a ten point lead in a game in the final 3 minutes. That is just plain stupidity. The Raptors should have been able to win that game no problem even if they never made another basket. Use the clock, force Indiana to foul to stop it and get to the line.

With Lowry, it wasn't the shots took, it was the ones he didn't take. Multiple times he drove to the basket and gave up a layup or a trip to the foul line only to kick it out for a ridiculously unnecessary 3 pointer. All these misses allowed Indiana to crawl back into a game multiple times that they had no business being in.

This is not a new issue though. This team simply does not know how to win or bury a team when they have the lead. I've always blamed Casey, but I'm really starting to wonder if there's anything he can do with guys like Lowry and Derozan. The Raptors had a great record this year, but the amount of times they let teams back in the game is absolutely staggering.

I wanted to reply to your response to my message following game 7 but everytime I got started it seems I have been pulled away from my computer.

The Casey vs players debate clearly lies somewhere in the middle. Casey is a great fundamentals coach and clearly is well liked/respected by his players, but I don't think there is any question his weakness is his ability to make savvy in-game adjustments, and that their offensive philosophy late in quarters/halves/games is quite bad. He's the kind of coach who (in an ideal world) they would keep for one more year to really hammer home the defensive principles he has instilled in them this year, and then move on to a more savvy in-game manager to take them to that next level.

Anyways, I went back over the recording of the game and this is my thought:

The issue with Lowry passing up shots in order to kick the ball out is because of how well the Pacers defended the Raptors set from around 7-3.5 minutes left. We had stationary shooters setup in each corner on multiple possessions, not moving, which essentially took them out of the play completely. We also utilized an extremely high screen set by our big about 5-6 straight possessions as well. Because of how far away from the basket the screen was occurring, the Pacers didn't have to respect JV or Biyombo rolling to the basket as they were too far to possess any real threat after the screen. This meant the ball handler had to attempt to gain penetration on two men who were cheating down on the screen in order to deny penetration which was generally very effective for them. This essentially left one wing player open as a viable passing option at the three point line as the other two were never moving and thus covered, and the big just very rarely was in a decent position to threaten the basket. Couple that with our insistence on running down the clock, and you get what we got. Cutoff penetration, hurried kickouts to a wing who only has 4-5 seconds on the shot clock to make something happen and no one in a viable position to pass the ball to.

When Casey finally did timeout (another thing that bothered me on film was how long he waited to call a timeout when the offense was melting down) we actually came out of it with a nice play. We utilized a screen with our guard instead of big. This allowed Lowry (I believe) to penetrate to the hoop not having to worry about a Indiana bigman in his path, and then passed off to a slashing DeMarre Carroll who had come off the three point line near the elbow completely unguarded, which gave him a wide open attempt at a short floater that he should have made.

Anyways, I'm not a basketball coach. I'm a football guy. But what I saw in Casey's late game offense wasn't off ball movement, fluidity, and low IQ guys passing up open teammates in order to jack shots. It was a bunch of guys standing around, waiting for the clock to run down before penetrating to the basket in hopes that a defender would cheat down to leave a corner three open. If the former was happening, I would agree with you about low bball IQ. But it just doesn't look to be that way to me. It looks like guys were doing what they are supposed to be doing and just getting completely shut down. Yet Casey never called TO to settle things down and try something different until the damage had mostly been done and panic had set in.

I'm excited for the Miami series. I think anyone who wants Demar benched is nuts tho. He's our best player right now like it or not with Kyle banged up. I'm probably a bigger Powell supporter than anyone and there is no reason he can't play bigger minutes with Demar still in the lineup. With Joe Johnson at PF for Miami it affords you an opportunity to move Carroll to the 4. Powell can come in for Wade, and Demar can handle Deng. I don't hate that at all. I think we matchup nicely on paper, now we'll have to see how we do in person.

[Senator Clay Davis]

DeRozan is certainly not the Raps best player right now. Best player this season? Well no that was Lowry, but that phrasing makes more sense. Right now Powell, Valanciunas and Joseph are all playing better than DeRozan, and Carroll probably is too with the elite defense. They need DeRozan to step it up big time if they wanna win this series, but his shooting % versus usage rate is staggeringly bad. Lowry isn't much better and they both need to limit the forced shots.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Trojan97

I wanted to reply to your response to my message following game 7 but everytime I got started it seems I have been pulled away from my computer.

The Casey vs players debate clearly lies somewhere in the middle. Casey is a great fundamentals coach and clearly is well liked/respected by his players, but I don't think there is any question his weakness is his ability to make savvy in-game adjustments, and that their offensive philosophy late in quarters/halves/games is quite bad. He's the kind of coach who (in an ideal world) they would keep for one more year to really hammer home the defensive principles he has instilled in them this year, and then move on to a more savvy in-game manager to take them to that next level.

Anyways, I went back over the recording of the game and this is my thought:

The issue with Lowry passing up shots in order to kick the ball out is because of how well the Pacers defended the Raptors set from around 7-3.5 minutes left. We had stationary shooters setup in each corner on multiple possessions, not moving, which essentially took them out of the play completely. We also utilized an extremely high screen set by our big about 5-6 straight possessions as well. Because of how far away from the basket the screen was occurring, the Pacers didn't have to respect JV or Biyombo rolling to the basket as they were too far to possess any real threat after the screen. This meant the ball handler had to attempt to gain penetration on two men who were cheating down on the screen in order to deny penetration which was generally very effective for them. This essentially left one wing player open as a viable passing option at the three point line as the other two were never moving and thus covered, and the big just very rarely was in a decent position to threaten the basket. Couple that with our insistence on running down the clock, and you get what we got. Cutoff penetration, hurried kickouts to a wing who only has 4-5 seconds on the shot clock to make something happen and no one in a viable position to pass the ball to.

When Casey finally did timeout (another thing that bothered me on film was how long he waited to call a timeout when the offense was melting down) we actually came out of it with a nice play. We utilized a screen with our guard instead of big. This allowed Lowry (I believe) to penetrate to the hoop not having to worry about a Indiana bigman in his path, and then passed off to a slashing DeMarre Carroll who had come off the three point line near the elbow completely unguarded, which gave him a wide open attempt at a short floater that he should have made.

Anyways, I'm not a basketball coach. I'm a football guy. But what I saw in Casey's late game offense wasn't off ball movement, fluidity, and low IQ guys passing up open teammates in order to jack shots. It was a bunch of guys standing around, waiting for the clock to run down before penetrating to the basket in hopes that a defender would cheat down to leave a corner three open. If the former was happening, I would agree with you about low bball IQ. But it just doesn't look to be that way to me. It looks like guys were doing what they are supposed to be doing and just getting completely shut down. Yet Casey never called TO to settle things down and try something different until the damage had mostly been done and panic had set in.

I'm excited for the Miami series. I think anyone who wants Demar benched is nuts tho. He's our best player right now like it or not with Kyle banged up. I'm probably a bigger Powell supporter than anyone and there is no reason he can't play bigger minutes with Demar still in the lineup. With Joe Johnson at PF for Miami it affords you an opportunity to move Carroll to the 4. Powell can come in for Wade, and Demar can handle Deng. I don't hate that at all. I think we matchup nicely on paper, now we'll have to see how we do in person.

Great post.

A couple things though:
1) I think it's because the Raptors players have come to expect that Demar and Lowry just plays iso ball whenever they are on the court. Both of them are some of the best at getting to the hoop and scoring but sometimes that just doesn't work in the playoffs. I don't think you can blame the coach, because when the reserves are out (Joseph, Powell, Lowry, Biyombo, Patterson lineup), the ball movement was quick and fluid. This was the lineup that nailed a wide open corner 3 just before the offence melted down as Demar checked in after the Pacers time out. Once Demar returned to the game, the players rightly or wrongly expected Demar to just iso every play, leading to the near-collapse.

2) Deng is an even better defender than George. I can see many bad shooting nights in the near future if Demar doesn't give up his shots to get the rest of his team involved.

3) I do agree that unfortunately, this team is built around Demar taking 20 shots and getting 20 points. However, it really was proven in that first series that the bench can really put some serious runs together. I think that instead of Demar playing 39 minutes, you limit the damage as much as possible, and play him for 25-30 minutes instead, and increase the playing time of the reserves. The Raptors won the Pacers series not because of Demar, but really, they won it in spite of everything that Demar did to sabotage them. I get that he's the face of the franchise, and politically you can't bench him, but you need to limit the damage, especially if his first couple shots don't fall.

[TheAlpineOracle]

I find it pretty funny that we are essentially talking about how we can limit the damage Derozan can do to the team now, and in 2 months time we'll be talking about him getting a max contract.

[kmart]

Late game isolations is who they've always been though for the past 2 seasons. They were never the Warriors or Spurs with their off ball movement. They love putting the ball in DeRozan's or Lowry's hands and letting them go 1 on 1 against their defender. It's not like Casey draws up a beautiful play and then DeMar and Kyle overrides the play and decides to go into isolation, this is who they are and have always been.

[Jason14h]

Paul George and the whole Indiana D is one of the worst fits for DD to play against as well.

He was horrible, but he should have an easier time against Miami.

He matches up REALLY poorly against George and Indy

[Imported_Aussie]

How DeRozan can be most useful against the Heat is driving the paint and drawing fouls. Use cuts behind screens to force mismatches, get the Heat in foul trouble, then when they have to bench their rim protector in Whiteside, start exploiting the size mismatch inside with Valanciuas

If the Heat respond by going small-ball, bench DeRozan for better perimeter defenders, then use him to attack if needed in bursts
C Valanciuas/Biyombo
PF Carroll
SF Powell
SG Joseph
PG Lowry

that would be the small-ball lineup I would counter the Heat. Powell isn't ideal at SF, but he is a better defender than DeRozan and James Johnson seems to be figuring less and less for the Raptors

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I find it pretty funny that we are essentially talking about how we can limit the damage Derozan can do to the team now, and in 2 months time we'll be talking about him getting a max contract.

Whoever gives Derozan a max contract will be mediocre at best during the entire length of the contract.

I hate the Lakers, so I hope they are the ones that do it.