[News] Flames to pick 6th in 2016 draft

[3thirty]

nm beaten

[Flamescuprun2018]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Brown didn't come from nowhere?

Let's look at cra12's list:

http://thehockeywriters.com/2016-nhl...minary-top-60/

Brown was ranked the 5th best prospect back in July. Ahead of Laine, Dubois, Juolevi, Sergachyev, Nylander.

"oh, but he fell off early in the year". Okay, so he was struggling to build consistency early on. But things like this were still posted midseason:



But did he find that consistency? As has been mentioned, yes, later in the season he was much more consistent. 29 points in his last 19 games, and a dominant U18s where he put up 4-9-13 in nine games.

So let's recap:

- Top 5 in this draft Upside has been there since before the season started.
- Consistency was an issue
- then Consistency stopped being an issue
- Being ranked top 5 in some final rankings while putting up very respectably draft year numbers as a 17 year old.

The points above and Craig Button's excitement for Brown really do add fuel to the Nylander vs Brown debate at 6. With the right development/coaching and mentorship Brown could be the Getzlaf in this years draft.

The same hockeywriters.com link said some super high praise for Chychrun last fall. I do wonder how multiple nagging injuries he had this season held him back versus early maturity that helped him standout at age 16.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Flamescuprun2018

The points above and Craig Button's excitement for Brown really do add fuel to the Nylander vs Brown debate at 6. With the right development/coaching and mentorship Brown could be the Getzlaf in this years draft.

The same hockeywriters.com link said some super high praise for Chychrun last fall. I do wonder how multiple nagging injuries he had this season held him back versus early maturity that helped him standout at age 16.

Jim Benning was on tsn1040 and added to the chorus on Brown saying he reminds him of a Ryan Johansen. If that's his upside, I hope we pick him at 6.

Lots of talk about what Vancouver will do. Benning made it clear that he sees first line F in Dubois and Tkachuk. However he does not see any of the D being #1 types so he will take the top line F over a #2 D.

So unless Benning values Brown over Dubois or Tkachuk, we will be choosing between Nylander/Brown and one of the 3 D. Say what you will about Benning but he's been a good scout. I too would want a top line F over a #2 D and if Browns our guy, I'm down with that.

[Flamescuprun2018]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Jim Benning was on tsn1040 and added to the chorus on Brown saying he reminds him of a Ryan Johansen. If that's his upside, I hope we pick him at 6.

Lots of talk about what Vancouver will do. Benning made it clear that he sees first line F in Dubois and Tkachuk. However he does not see any of the D being #1 types so he will take the top line F over a #2 D.

So unless Benning values Brown over Dubois or Tkachuk, we will be choosing between Nylander/Brown and one of the 3 D. Say what you will about Benning but he's been a good scout. I too would want a top line F over a #2 D and if Browns our guy, I'm down with that.

Interesting comment from HF board debating Craig Button's list:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...2071937&page=2

hbk: "I attended u18s. Brown was a dominant force. He was jaw dropping good. Play making 6'6" still growing C that when he pulls a power move cuts through opposing D like a hot knife through butter. Teams didn't have an answer for him. Slash, cheap shots, take a penalty. Only recipe opposing teams were offering.

I'm all in for Brown at 7 for AZ. Without hesitation."

Brown is definitely in the conversation.

[Chingas]

I only have youtube to judge from but in most highlights Brown appears to have/take lots of time to get his shot off. I have concerns over his ability to make a play/get a shot off with more pressure from NHL quality defensemen? He appears to have a good shot, but still looks a little gangly and not really highly skilled with the puck from what I have been able to see.

Am I out to lunch?

[nightfx]

Honestly there's so much to like about every player around the top 10 that I doubt I'd be disappointed in whoever the Flames decide to pick. The more interesting picks are Dallas' first and the second round picks.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Brown may be the most intriguing yet controversial player in this draft. I like his size and skill. Just wish he was a better scorer. Flames really need a finisher.

[Poe969]

6OA =6(capital o, capital a). 6 OA

If there was a way to end up with 4 & 6 then you do it. I'd take Dubois at 4 and either tkachuck if he's there or chychrun. Coming out with 2 guys like that would be about as good as winning the lottery.

It's just not realistic.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Speed? I read a lot of reports saying he is MacKinnon fast or even read a couple guys say he is right there with McDavid.

That is some hyperbole. He's nowhere near McDavid's skating. And what makes McDavid special is he accelerates with the puck and has multiple extra gears. From what I've seen McLeod slows down when he has the puck on his stick and only hits top speed without the puck. Frankly McLeod's skating did not stand out at the U18s that much. He was about as fast as 1/4 of the players in the tournament.

Originally Posted by dammage79

I haven't been as high on a Canadian kid since Bennett/Ekblad.

That's crazy talk. He's nowhere near those players in terms of talent.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

That is some hyperbole. He's nowhere near McDavid's skating. And what makes McDavid special is he accelerates with the puck and has multiple extra gears. From what I've seen McLeod slows down when he has the puck on his stick and only hits top speed without the puck. Frankly McLeod's skating did not stand out at the U18s that much. He was about as fast as 1/4 of the players in the tournament.



That's crazy talk. He's nowhere near those players in terms of talent.

Oh god. Please get over yourself already. I'll use the very same defense you use when countering other posters who critique your favorite players. I'm not saying that, Scouts are in regards to his speed. Go whine at them about the hyperbole. But again I'm sure you'll remind us you're the go to guy for all things draft with more condescending remarks about players other people like.

You're getting obnoxious.

Whether you think it's crazy talk or not, I like the player as much as I like Bennett/Ekblad. Did I say he was as good as them? No. I said I like him just as much.

[puds]

Most people would rather draft the BPA rather than the player dammage79 likes the best.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by puds

Most people would rather draft the BPA rather than the player dammage79 likes the best.

Well gee willikers! I guess I should just stop posting then eh? Thanks man! Didn't know there was a whole entire other thread with a Poll too to back your statement up! Discussion is over i suppose. I'll just conform then and fawn over whoever the majority likes best.

[Erratik]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Well gee willikers! I guess I should just stop posting then eh? Thanks man! Didn't know there was a whole entire other thread with a Poll too to back your statement up! Discussion is over i suppose. I'll just conform then and fawn over whoever the majority likes best.

I have not followed the entire thread, so I just want to make sure I understand correctly. Are you advocating the Flames take McLoed at 6 or are you talking about trading down to take him in the teens? Or perhaps packaging a prospect with our 2nd to get an addtional pick in the teens?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Erratik

I have not followed the entire thread, so I just want to make sure I understand correctly. Are you advocating the Flames take McLoed at 6 or are you talking about trading down to take him in the teens? Or perhaps packaging a prospect with our 2nd to get an addtional pick in the teens?

All. I'm happy if they take him at 6. Regardless of the fan "concensus" I believe McLeod can be right up there in the top 6. There's no real discernable gap between the players after say Tkachuk and Dubois all the way down to middle of the round.

But I think you can trade down and get more assets to address other needs and get McLeod. Which is optimal in my estimation. And I don't think you can go into the teens to get him either. 10 would be lowest.

The probabilities grow lower that the Flames can get another high 12-15 pick trading up from Dallas is he does slip. So trading down for me would be my favored option.

End of the day though, everyone's going to have their preferences. I'm not going to belittle them though for having them.

[Erratik]

Originally Posted by dammage79

All. I'm happy if they take him at 6. Regardless of the fan "concensus" I believe McLeod can be right up there in the top 6. There's no real discernable gap between the players after say Tkachuk and Dubois all the way down to middle of the round.

But I think you can trade down and get more assets to address other needs and get McLeod. Which is optimal in my estimation. And I don't think you can go into the teens to get him either. 10 would be lowest.

The probabilities grow lower that the Flames can get another high 12-15 pick trading up from Dallas is he does slip. So trading down for me would be my favored option.

End of the day though, everyone's going to have their preferences. I'm not going to belittle them though for having them.

I am not trying to belittle you, although I personally wouldn't take him at 6, but you are entitled to like whoever you want. If Dubois and Tkachuk are gone at 6, I would probably favor Logan Brown, although I would be open to trading down as well. I think we could get Boston's 14 and 20 for our 6th overall, but I don't want to drop as low as 14.

Maybe if another team was then willing to take 14 and 35 for 10 or 11? I would do 6+35 for 10+20 in this draft.

[JJ1532]

But what people seem to overlook is, why would any team trade up? All well and good us wanting to move down, but I see nobody who would want to give up extra assets for a similar player that they could get with the pick they currently hold.

By all accounts, you can get a similar player at 6 that you can get at 10-14. So why would Boston give up assets to move up and grab Nylander/a defenceman when they could stay where they are and probably grab a player like them anyway?

The only hope of trading down relied on one team getting a real hard on for 1 player that could go 6th(Nylander, Chychrun etc). I don't see that happening. I think we are staying at 6 and if we are doing that, we should take BPA, not reach for a guy we think might be a better fit. This isn't the NFL.

[SebC]

Flames have a ledge after 6, fans have a ledge after 5... gotta hope they're smarter than us, because someone needs to go "off the board" for us to get a consensus pick.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am leery about Brown, but his upside is really tremendous.

He would go a long ways in helping to fix the Flames' size issues, and he really seems to have the skill to legitimately play on a top line. Anyways, drafting him suddenly doesn't make the Flames appear undersized any longer.

Gaudreau 5'9" - Monahan 6'2" - Brown 6'6"
Jankowski - 6'4" - Bennett 6'1" - Pribyl 6'3"
Colborne 6'5" - Backlund 6'1" - Frolik 6'1"
Ferland 6'2" - Grant 6'3" - Smith 6'6"

That's not an undersized team at all. You can even plug in another undersized player on the left or right of Bennett, and it would look fine still if Jankowski, Pribyl and other wingers don't work out. Mix and match how you like according to how you feel players end up. Ferland can be on the 2nd line if he starts putting his chances in the net (I still think he has a lot of talent and has been generating quite a lot, but has been rather snakebitten this season).

Now all the big guys outside of Smith (who I think still has a good shot at ending up as a good 4th liner long term) aren't of the physical type, but they will provide the Flames with the cycling dynamic. I know many posters here complain about the stretch pass, but the Flames often do carry the puck in - especially with the defence (Brodie or Giordano) and some forwards (Backlund, Gaudreau especially). What they can't do is cycle worth a damn. You don't need players that will crush guys along the boards - you need guys with size and strength to battle for the puck and maintain possession along the boards. Helps increase possession time, helps to generate offence off the cycle, and helps to limit odd-man rushes the other way when the opposing team interrupts the cycle and sends it to an open guy.

Helps on the defensive side of things as well. I loved Kris Russell, but he was simply too small and weak as a defencemen to interrupt the cycle and get the puck out of the zone. Having big forwards helping out down-low along the boards will help. Having big forwards also helps the defencemen when they clear it up the boards.

Brent Sutter's system was awful because he forced everything up the boards in the zone exits. Teams caught on, and they always pinched the forwards along the boards. Flames were undersized (and old). Having big forwards opens up that lane. Having big skilled forwards opens up the boards AND the middle of the ice too, as they can skate and make plays.

This is why I really wish the Flames to pick big and skilled players. Hartley (or if you are an absolute Hartley hater - the 'new coach') can broaden the systems and create more options. More options means easier times matching up against other teams, while making it more difficult to match up against the Flames. Now instead of having the team play "X's and O's" type of drawing on the board, players will have to react against the Flames as it happens.

You need speed in this game. You need skill in this game. You also need size in order to have long-term success. The Flames' defence as it stands right now - including the prospect pool - are more of the 'mobile puck-moving types' that aren't very physical. That is how the Flames are generating a lot of chances. The flipside of that is that forwards need to come back into the zone when the Flames get caught in their zone and help the defencemen break up the cycles. Again, the trade-off is size.

Drafting another undersized but talented guy will change the dynamics of the top line for sure - they will be a team that has to score on the rush for the most part to succeed. You can slot that talent on the 2nd line with Bennett, but you still need to find a big talented winger for the top line, and Jankowski better work out on the 2nd line.

Now, I voted Jost in the other thread. I think he is the 'safest' pick because of his high motor and high-end skill, but he comes at an average size which is fine. This is why I think he is a much better pick for the Flames than Keller or even Nylander.

Nylander vs Brown - I don't think Nylander is that much more skilled. I think he is more inconsistent than Brown was. Brown took time to figure things out at the start of the season - but look how strong he finished. For those watching Nylander, people came away thinking McLeod was the driver on that line. Nylander went what - 16? - games without scoring towards the end of the season? I am actually leery on Nylander - and I actually enjoyed his dad playing on the Flames and also agreed with many scouts in saying that William Nylander might have the highest offensive ceiling his draft year. Alex? Just seems like a less skilled version of William. Great shot. Great skills. But leaves you wanting more when you see him. I am just not sure his upside is all that great - but I do think he can be a good complimentary player on a scoring line.

He just isn't going to help the Flames become a team that can play a different system, and I think this is what the Flames need.

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by SebC

Flames have a ledge after 6, fans have a ledge after 5... gotta hope they're smarter than us, because someone needs to go "off the board" for us to get a consensus pick.

It's easy to say you have a ledge after 6, when you have the 6 pick.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

It's easy to say you have a ledge after 6, when you have the 6 pick.

Flames said the ledge was at 6 when they had the 5th pick.