Who should the Flames pick at 6th overall?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

We are not comparing playing styles. That has zero to do with a players size. Bennett and Nylander are absolutely comparable size wise, playing style be damned. I am pointing out how ridiculous the argument is not to take Nylander because he is undersized, it just isn't true.

Playing style has everything to do with whether a player's size will prevent them from achieving high potential or not. If a player plays small and doesn't have good size then his size is a concern. If a player plays big and doesn't have good size then his size isn't as much of a concern.

Bennett plays a hard style and Nylander doesn't. So there is no concern on Bennett's average size and there is concern on Nylander's average to below average size.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Playing style has everything to do with a player's size. If a player plays small and doesn't have good size then his size is a concern. If a player plays big and doesn't have good size then his size isn't as much of a concern.

Bennett plays a hard style and Nylander doesn't. So there is no concern on Bennett's average size and there is concern on Nylander's average to below average size.

You know a debate is intense when it's happening in two different threads

[JJ1532]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Kyle Woodlief, head scout with Redline Report (one of my favs) on EDM radio chatting about the draft

http://omnyapp.com/shows/oilers-now-...f-red-line-rep

Interesting listen. He has Bean as an underrated player in the draft and someone that will go by 7-8. He intrigues me. Is he the last player in Treliving's 3-6 tier?

[Fighting Banana Slug]

^^ Thanks FDW. Having heard the interview, it is far from a foregone conclusion that they go forward. He did mention it was "realistic" that they go forward over defense, but he also talked about how his team is transitioning, the need for depth in the organization and other issues that lead me to believe they go BPA.It is entirely conceivable that could be a Dman or someone else.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Playing style has everything to do with whether a player's size will prevent them from achieving high potential or not. If a player plays small and doesn't have good size then his size is a concern. If a player plays big and doesn't have good size then his size isn't as much of a concern.

Bennett plays a hard style and Nylander doesn't. So there is no concern on Bennett's average size and there is concern on Nylander's average to below average size.

Wow. How flawed is that logic?? Really?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by JJ1532

Interesting listen. He has Bean as an underrated player in the draft and someone that will go by 7-8. He intrigues me. Is he the last player in Treliving's 3-6 tier?

It's an interesting question. Bean's strengths are skating, passing, puck rushing and shooting. Obviously Redline feels he's the most skilled defensemen offensively. His weaknesses are size and defensive play (but most scouts believe defensive play can be taught). There are many different players that have the skill to be in contention for top 8 so it becomes a matter of preference.

IMO a team may emphasize Bean above other type of players if they have a pressing need in their organization for skilled offensive defensemen. IMO a team may emphasize Bean above other types of players if they value skill and skating above all else.

IMO the Calgary Flames have a very deep system for offensive defensemen. We have Giordano, Hamilton, Brodie, Wideman and Nakladal on the big team. All can be used on the power play, all are offensive or two-way guys. Below that level we also have Kulak, Andersson and Kylington for offensive defensemen or two-way puck movers. The Flames may be one of the deepest teams in the league in terms of puck movers. So our need for a puck moving offensive defensemen is quite low.

IMO the Calgary Flames don't just value skill and skating above all else like some other teams may. I think they value size, strength, work ethic, leadership, determination and things along those lines just as highly. Therefore I doubt we're one of the teams in the league that has Jake Bean highest.

The issue is that guys like Juolevi, Sergachev and Chychrun are no slouches offensively. Bean may have the highest upside, the most potential to be a rover type. But I think the Flames scouts may be impressed by the overall package of the OHL defenders because they combine size, skating and skill.

So yeah my guess is that Bean isn't top 6-8 on the Flames list because
1. We don't have a pressing need for offensive defensemen so we don't have to prioritize that type of player if players are close and/or tied
2. We don't just value skill and skating above all else and Bean is likely to be rated highest by teams who do
3. The other defensemen present more well rounded packages that would seem to compliment our existing group of NHLers and prospects better than Bean would

Just a guess

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Wow. How flawed is that logic?? Really?

How so?

Baertschi is 5'11 190 lbs. Granlund is 6'0 178. But players have similar builds to Alex Nylander. Both players play a finesse game like Nylander does. We've seen with our very eyes how both players struggled to become impact NHLers because their skill level was neutralized by big, strong defensemen who quite easily shoved them off the puck. Granlund has a great shot but can't get open in the slot often enough to do anything with it. Both players play small for their size, they get dominated along the boards and in front of the net. It limits their effectiveness and has prevented them from achieving a high upside.

Mike Peca was 5'11. He played very big for his size. He was one of the most devastating open ice hitters in the NHL. His effectiveness was not held back one bit by his below average height because he was very strong for his height and he played big. Crosby is 5'11 but has insane core strength. He's harder to push off the puck than 6'5 Joe Colborne is.

Sounds like sound logic to me. Peca and Baertschi have similar or identical size. Size was not an issue for Peca. Size is an issue for Baertschi. Why? Style of play, determination, core strength. So when talking about whether size is an issue or not, style of play becomes a massive factor in that equation.

So bring it back to Nylander does the fact he plays a finesse style, a softer style mean his average size and below average strength may be a question mark? Yes it does. It's not enough of a question mark to make him an unattractive prospect. If we draft him I'll be excited. But IMO it's enough of a question mark to make us doubt whether he'd be top 6 for the Flames.

[herashak]

Bennett - Jankowski - Nylander

[Poe969]

The thing is, I don't think that Nylander plays a pure finesse game but he doesn't play a tough game. I don't think he'd be the guy going out and laying hits but I don't think he'd be a pushover either. He isn't big and may get punished a lot but no more than other players would. Nylander isn't the complete package where he could play pure finesse and physically dominate like the top few guys, if he could he'd probably go ahead of the others as I think he's more offensively gifted. Nylander is good but a lot of players are and I don't think you can go wrong with most any from the 6-12 ranking.

[Monahan For Mayor]

That Nylander back hand shot was insane.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Monahan For Mayor

That Nylander back hand shot was insane.

Takes special kind of creativity to think of that shot and confidence in your skills to attempt it. He looks like he likes to be tricky. Which can get a team some surprise goals, but it can also turnover the puck at inopportune times.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Sam Cosentino who is one of Sportsnet junior guys is coming on the Fan960 shortly to talk about prospects we could take at #6. I'll recap most likely.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by herashak

Bennett - Jankowski - Nylander

That actually would make me smile to see that line someday.

[Krynn]

I take Bean with one of our seconds if he's still there but I'm almost certain he won't get out of the first round. He's to good to pass up on.

[D as in David]

It would have been easier to vote for a player if the # of km's they had ridden in a bus was listed.

[Miniac]

Tkachuk or Dubois IF available.

[Monahan For Mayor]

Originally Posted by Buff

Takes special kind of creativity to think of that shot and confidence in your skills to attempt it. He looks like he likes to be tricky. Which can get a team some surprise goals, but it can also turnover the puck at inopportune times.

That's a part of letting them play tho. Johnny turns the puck over on moves he tries, and sure they cost the team once and a while. However, id say more often then not those moves help the team. If Nylander can replicate a similar outcome go ahead.

[MrMastodonFarm]

If Dubois and Tkachuk are gone I'm totally in with Alex Nylander. He seems to have some verisitiliy too, played some center but able to play both his natural right side and his off wing.

Burke's head might explode but 92 to 93 would be a lot of fun to watch.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

If Dubois and Tkachuk are gone I'm totally in with Alex Nylander. He seems to have some verisitiliy too, played some center but able to play both his natural right side and his off wing.

Burke's head might explode but 92 to 93 would be a lot of fun to watch.

He would be a nice option playing alongside Bennett or Monahan as right now Gaudreau is the only winger they have that truly complements a top center. It's why I can't see the pick going to a defenseman as I don't see a top winger in the system.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

If Dubois and Tkachuk are gone I'm totally in with Alex Nylander. He seems to have some verisitiliy too, played some center but able to play both his natural right side and his off wing.

Burke's head might explode but 92 to 93 would be a lot of fun to watch.

I am with you here. I really hope we can get one of the power forward wingers but getting the speedy, skilled right shot is not a bad consolation prize by any means. Hearing Benning talk about rather having a first line winger than top 4 Dman makes me believe that they take who is left of Tkachuk and Dubois.

Oilers could be a wild card. I don't see them taking a Dman at 4 but could see them trading the pick outright for a player, trading down, or take one of those power forwards.